so.... can someone tell us what the differences are??? are they stiffer?
Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!
- Thread starter mrquick68
- Start date
so.... can someone tell us what the differences are??? are they stiffer?
Well i usually dont post much BUT I had the same issue last year without the turbo I would get 100-200 miles out of a belt. Played with alignment a bunch and 2 different clutch kits, helixes and springs nothing fixed it.... So go make sh1t worse I put a turbo on it! I can now pop a thread in 10 miles, this weekend I changed the gear ratio to 56/64 and it improved, I atleast got 50 miles out of a belt. I have already drilled motor mounts on both sides, shimmed the pto side back out all kinds a crap.
There are harder motor mounts out for another arctic cat that you can place into the 1000 but I heard that it will crack the bulkhead or mounts, dont know if it fixed it?
also heard that you keep moving the clutch in till the threads stop poping on the outside, in some cases you have to machine the back. I havent taken it that far but Im going to this weekend.
Between a belt a day and race gas this is getting tuff!
obviously Arctic cat has a problem or they wouldnt change the motor mount every year. I think they owe alot of people some belt money, I have about 15 laying in the shop I should send them!!
There are harder motor mounts out for another arctic cat that you can place into the 1000 but I heard that it will crack the bulkhead or mounts, dont know if it fixed it?
also heard that you keep moving the clutch in till the threads stop poping on the outside, in some cases you have to machine the back. I havent taken it that far but Im going to this weekend.
Between a belt a day and race gas this is getting tuff!
obviously Arctic cat has a problem or they wouldnt change the motor mount every year. I think they owe alot of people some belt money, I have about 15 laying in the shop I should send them!!
What has changed between '06 M's and now.....I had a '06 M900 (Engine tech) tha had about 170ish HP and no belt problems. Something to think about. I havn't stayed on top of all the details of what has changed the last couple years on the Cats. I stayed with a very simple/generic clutch setup.....no gimicks or fancy stuff and it worked very good.
Has anybody tried to put a torque bracket on the left rear of the engine?? Or,, maybe a tie down strap on the right front corner? You know, put the strap on the right front corner and then go down under the engine towards the right side. Or both? I still say that alot of this has to do with cats copy of the dd. Cause it sounds like those who are buying the black diamond drive replacement are happy with theirs. HMMMMM, can see a shift away from cat if they don't beef up their copy of the dd. To bad.
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J
I still say that alot of this has to do with cats copy of the dd. Cause it sounds like those who are buying the black diamond drive replacement are happy with theirs.
????????? Quick has the BDX drive
????????? Quick has the BDX drive
S
Everybody buying the BDX DD is gearing down too.I still say that alot of this has to do with cats copy of the dd. Cause it sounds like those who are buying the black diamond drive replacement are happy with theirs.
????????? Quick has the BDX drive
That comment was a little off topic,, my point was it's interesting how SOFT these sleds are setup in the clutching and gearing and motor mounts and and AND AND.. JUST BUILD BETTER PARTS AND THESE PROBLEMS WILL GO AWAY..... If it comes down to a couple pounds, how much does durability count or cost?
M
I think you guys need to remember that your dealing with a torque monster here (there is a reason none of the other manufacturers build anything over an 800cc). No other machine is putting out the low end grunt like the m10 and if your banging out of the hole all the time your putting a lot of stress on that belt and direct drive unit. Remember that the dd unit virtually marry's the track to the motor (unlike a chain case) so the motor torque and track resistance are transfering twist toward each other and meeting in the middle via dd. It isn't a perfect system. It works but will show symptoms.
mnt_extreme - i see what you are saying, no question. And I'd gladly believe that the problem was in fact all in part to the 1000 torque, but why aren't turbo M8's having this problem??? I know they don't have the torque down low like 1000 does, but still - they make WAY more power overall... Shoot, AC even makes 180HP stock turbo 4 stroke that is connect via the DD???
one more thought - and this is just a wee little thought. the rubber mount between the DD case and the motor mount plate is another part that has changed this year (2009). it's stiffer over the 08 version. Normally - i'd say "AH HA!" but i know guys with 2009 M1000s having the same belt issues.
one more thought - and this is just a wee little thought. the rubber mount between the DD case and the motor mount plate is another part that has changed this year (2009). it's stiffer over the 08 version. Normally - i'd say "AH HA!" but i know guys with 2009 M1000s having the same belt issues.
M
" but why aren't turbo M8's having this problem??? "
You answered your own question on this one. Turbo power is not hole shot and even though they have got them down to where their spooling up quick (no lag), it still isn't banging right from the get go. Power thru the power band increases as the rpm's increase. This wouldn't put the snap anywhere thru the power sequence that the m10 puts coming out of the hole hard. Think of it this way, if you put a piece of cast metal into a press and apply pressure of 2000 lbs before it breaks and then take that same metal and put it in the press again, apply 500 lbs pressure and smack it with a hammer...it will break.
The torque is what is causing the factory gear in the dd to break where it is welded together and the threads to peel off the outside of your belt. IMO, you will never fix the problem but only find the "sweet spot" where the two energies coming together is at it's minimum.
You answered your own question on this one. Turbo power is not hole shot and even though they have got them down to where their spooling up quick (no lag), it still isn't banging right from the get go. Power thru the power band increases as the rpm's increase. This wouldn't put the snap anywhere thru the power sequence that the m10 puts coming out of the hole hard. Think of it this way, if you put a piece of cast metal into a press and apply pressure of 2000 lbs before it breaks and then take that same metal and put it in the press again, apply 500 lbs pressure and smack it with a hammer...it will break.
The torque is what is causing the factory gear in the dd to break where it is welded together and the threads to peel off the outside of your belt. IMO, you will never fix the problem but only find the "sweet spot" where the two energies coming together is at it's minimum.
i'm currently working a few angles on this. I'll report back in about a week.
Another theory.....the Cat weight profile is light tip, the RPM of the 1000 is a bit lower than most twins, the engine torque produced is significant, throw in a big track and you may not be generating enough squeeze from mid-upper shift (like climbing) to harness the pull on the belt from BOTH ends.....engine and track load. Do the combination of RPM/power/weight profile make for a combination that allows just a little too much slip and heat?? has anyone tried a different weight profile with better luck? Perhaps the Polaris 10- weights or similar? Would likely need to run a shallower helix or more secondary spring to have a good backshift though.
I think it has to be a combination of things happening to be showing up on so many sleds. I believe any amount of power can be harnessed, even at low speeds/rpm with the right clutching....look at the Yami's and the big triples, tons of low end and brutal off the bottom with no belt issues.
How about belt construction?? Doo has had some issues with this.
I think it has to be a combination of things happening to be showing up on so many sleds. I believe any amount of power can be harnessed, even at low speeds/rpm with the right clutching....look at the Yami's and the big triples, tons of low end and brutal off the bottom with no belt issues.
How about belt construction?? Doo has had some issues with this.
Hey quick... You mentioned a black streak on half the cicumference of the clutch. To me this sounds like a possible crank alignment issue. Just for fun check the crank run-out, you may be surprised.
S
....but on my 07 I get over a 1000 miles on a belt, just change them because I think I ot to. I ride it pretty hard.
Last week i pulled out a sled with a locked track. Talk about torque, but belt still looks good.
I have not even screwed with my alignment. Glad I got lucky.
The one thing we may do different is we ride pretty hard for 20-30 minutes then stop and have a beer. We are getting pretty old.
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D
ok i have read sevral pGES OF THIS THREAD and i have a custom sled with an artic cat secondary i set clutch alignment with an artic cat z bar and i would get one or two rides out of a belt and would always pull a thread on the outside of the belt i got tierd of buying belts so i used the skidoo methood with a straight bar to align my clutches which i ended up moving my secondary in .090 thousandths and i have been riding the same belt all year since this change and i dont thread the belt almost no belt dust with all the trouble you are having it would definatly be worth a try moving your secondary in so if you try it let me know how it works for you it took me three years to figure out my belt eater and it seems i have know keep tryin and keep smiling we do this for fun
M
alignment
get a 09 manual from your dealer do parallel if you have to shim motor i dont know how to send pic.but i know this work i was blowing belts every 50 miles did the parallel and it was way off fixed my self now i am on 311 miles with same belt no VENTS
get a 09 manual from your dealer do parallel if you have to shim motor i dont know how to send pic.but i know this work i was blowing belts every 50 miles did the parallel and it was way off fixed my self now i am on 311 miles with same belt no VENTS
G
* Trust your black pen marks but, don`t ingnore heat. Since my M7`s I have been moving my secondary in from the factory set-up but only enough to make up for the narrow belt widths we get as new.* * If your front is hotter than the back (check after a short hard run or two before your temps start to equalize), then it is slipping. When inside sheave is the hottest the front is slipping. Because you have a lot of weight doesn`t mean it won`t slip. It can take a lot of torque to SCREW that secondary open quickly. Once it starts to slip it is hard to stop. * Generally the outside thread pulls if your front is slipping because the moveable sheave is the SLIPPING sheave. Leaving half black streak on the sliding half is usually from a very strong backshift signal (maybe too strong a signal, maybe a big hole stopped the track LOL).* Generally the inside threads start to pull if the secondary is slipping, `cause that is the moveable or SLIPPING sheave. The stationary sheave always gets the hottest if that clutch is slipping because it is the one that is not suppose to slip at all.** Checking your alignment while running on the stand will throw you off if your clutching is out because the secondary may be out of the correct gear relative to the front. Same for using the float method.* It`s all about the momentum of shift LOL.* Anyhow getting back to the black pen marks. If you don`t look at the lines for long enough they will always equalize because of backshift.* If your secondary is too stiff (harder to shift out than it needs to be) your black pen marks will always show you need to move the secondary in more because the moveable sheave is on the inside and it is resisting this movement. So, the lines on the front look like the secondary needs to move in. It does but, not the whole clutch assy, just the sliding sheave.* If you mark both clutches it is more obvious but heat is still the best way to check if you have a good balance (which is the most important for the poor little belt LOL) in your clutches. Alignment, within reason, will only pull strings if you run at the top of the primary all the time, for long distances. You can compensate for poor clutch set-up with improper alignment.*
Pulling strings is nothing new to this sport. Even way back when, LOL, every one had floating secondary`s to make up for misalignment.
Sled chassis and engine mounting is way better than the past (so maybe it`s not the problem it was in the old days), but clutching, is still a mystery.
Geo
Pulling strings is nothing new to this sport. Even way back when, LOL, every one had floating secondary`s to make up for misalignment.
Sled chassis and engine mounting is way better than the past (so maybe it`s not the problem it was in the old days), but clutching, is still a mystery.
Geo
OK - let's touch again on all the things i've tried...
1. Alignment done by the dealer and then by me. I used the black pen method and have found it to be perfect at WOT full load climbing. Dealers alignment bar showed perfect as well (even though i don't trust these, though maybe they have a good one???)
2. Parallelism - done again by dealer. They shimmed my motor over for me. This has been done correctly.
3. Tried 060 and 046 belts. Sled runs and pulls better with the 046. Both pulled threads.
4. Tried ALL stock clutching - pulled threads. Tried RKT kit and sno pro green spring with various positions as well as an inner very light compression spring. Still blowing belts.
5. Installed a BDX DD lite. Belts now much cooler, secondary cooler, sled WAY more fun to ride. Still pulling threads...
The snow stopped falling at this point... so now i'm going to try something else. I'll be ditching the Ti spring in favor of the a slightly softer spring - the yellow/green. Not only will this allow (in theory) a better balance to what possibly may be over stiff secondary, but the steel spring is a good bit smaller in diameter than the Ti. The Ti y/w definitely was showing signs of bindage and when i removed it, it was actually stuck in the spring cup to the point that i had pull it with a good bit of force. It also was slightly bent in one direction... I didn't know Ti could stay bent? i thought it broke???
Riding tomorrow - will try and report back tomorrow night.
Sled goes into the dealer after i come back from riding as well. They are going to measure a bunch of things per Cat as well. Will report on their findings too.
1. Alignment done by the dealer and then by me. I used the black pen method and have found it to be perfect at WOT full load climbing. Dealers alignment bar showed perfect as well (even though i don't trust these, though maybe they have a good one???)
2. Parallelism - done again by dealer. They shimmed my motor over for me. This has been done correctly.
3. Tried 060 and 046 belts. Sled runs and pulls better with the 046. Both pulled threads.
4. Tried ALL stock clutching - pulled threads. Tried RKT kit and sno pro green spring with various positions as well as an inner very light compression spring. Still blowing belts.
5. Installed a BDX DD lite. Belts now much cooler, secondary cooler, sled WAY more fun to ride. Still pulling threads...
The snow stopped falling at this point... so now i'm going to try something else. I'll be ditching the Ti spring in favor of the a slightly softer spring - the yellow/green. Not only will this allow (in theory) a better balance to what possibly may be over stiff secondary, but the steel spring is a good bit smaller in diameter than the Ti. The Ti y/w definitely was showing signs of bindage and when i removed it, it was actually stuck in the spring cup to the point that i had pull it with a good bit of force. It also was slightly bent in one direction... I didn't know Ti could stay bent? i thought it broke???
Riding tomorrow - will try and report back tomorrow night.
Sled goes into the dealer after i come back from riding as well. They are going to measure a bunch of things per Cat as well. Will report on their findings too.
