Welder advice

[gmustangt]

I'm considering buying my first welder to have around the house. Mainly for sled stuff, turbo components, repairs, running boards etc.
I'd like a miller unit but I'm on a budget.
Needs to be able to do aluminum, now I know tig is the way for that, but I have seen some nice aluminum welds done with mig, with an aluminum spool gun.

Have my eye on this unit http://www.kmstools.com/thermal-arc-211i-3-n-1-welder-18996

Don't know much about welders so all comments are good, what to look for in a welder etc...

 

[Trashy]

Buy a TIG.

Buy a TIG

or you could always buy a TIG.

For precision work, and especially for aluminum, it's the only way to go.

We have had MANY threads like this one over the years and it is always the same consensus. The only real question always seems to be Miller vs. Lincoln but I will leave that up to you to decide.

I f you are on a budget, this might be of interest: I built my first set of headers for my race car (fancy 316 stainless ones with at the time exotic merge collectors) with a scratch start machine that a buddy put together from an older lincoln stick machine that he bought for cheap. No, it didn't have AC, so no aluminum, but I did several projects with that rig, including custom oil pans, the headers I mentioned, and even toyed with titanium a bit. From there I moved to the Lincoln Precision TIG I still have now, but it was a great way to start. Didn't hurt to have a journeyman welder to show me the ropes however…

 

[gmustangt]

How much power is needed?

Would a miller 165 diversion have the power to do sled stuff?

 

[Trashy]

It's rated at 150 amps output, so it will be fine for steel and lighter gauge aluminum. For most "hobbyists" I think you would be pretty happy with a machine like that.

 

[gmustangt]

Lots of ppl are telling me I need 200 amps for aluminum...

But for sled components is 150 enough?

What do you guys run?

 

[Trashy]

MOAR power is better for aluminum, yes.

150 will still do 1/8" tho. It just takes longer to bring the material up to melting point as aluminum transfers heat like mad.

I guess it really depends on what you plan on building. 250 amps and a water cooled torch would be awesome but are way past many people's budget.

 

[LoudHandle]

If you are serious about welding, then get the biggest machine with the highest duty cycle possible, even if you need to get a small loan to cover the portion that is outside your budget. I can not stress that enough!

I use a Miller Dynasty 700 at work and on occasion even it is not enough. Although some of the Aluminum I'm required to TIG weld is more than two inches thick. The only way to squeeze a little more out of a smaller machine is to preheat the parts, which with the heat treatable aluminum alloys is counter productive as you are more apt to overheat them and take the temper out which causes them to be as weak or weaker than the non-heat treated alloys.

So get the highest duty cycle / highest amp rated machine you can squeeze into. A bigger machine will last you a lifetime, trying to squeeze high amps out of a small machine will kill it in short order. I went thru a 250 every couple years at work before I convinced them they would be money ahead with the 700.

 

[Trashy]

I would agree with all that.

Too small of a welder is like riding a stock sled and having to hold it to the bar all the time. Hey wait, most of us do that.... Lol

Seriously tho, buy the biggest machine you can afford. You won't regret it.

 

[LoudHandle]

My only other advise is go with Miller if possible for your shop machines. In my 30+ years as a career welder the power of the Blue will out live the comparable Lincoln by twice. At least in the non-engine driven TIG machines. For the engine driven category, the Lincoln Pipeliner is hard to beat. (Pun intended, it is really hard to wear out or destroy a Pipeliner, short of running it at a dead short that exceeds it's rated duty cycle ( was attempting to thaw some frozen above ground water main in my early years before I fully understood what duty cycle was all about)).

 

[gmustangt]

I agree with all of that and that's my dilemma im on a budget and I'm really eyeing the miller diversion 180. I would rather have a lower powered miller unit than a 300 amp Chinese unit
Need to keep in mind this is not for work it's for pure hobby use, sled components etc. nothing 2" thick that's for sure.
I would love a 700 series water cooled miller, also like to fly in a private jet instead of charter coach... Reality is I cant spend more than 2g on a unit.

 

[LoudHandle]

If that is your budget, I would avoid a Chinese knock off even if they paid me to take it. I would keep my eye open for a low use used unit. For example our welding engineer at work bought a few high end machines to teach his son who was in high school to weld. After all he had read all the books and knew all the theory and metallurgy, how hard could it be? Long story short, he could not weld a bead to save his life and ended up selling all the machines for pennys on the dollar. My hope would be you could luck into a similar deal! Good Luck in your search.

 

[gmustangt]

Dumb question, regarding water cooled torch.
Say your welding a thinner guage aluminum .060" would you not have to stop and let the aluminum cool to prevent warping before an air cooled torch would get to hot?

 

[LoudHandle]

Dumb question, regarding water cooled torch.
Say your welding a thinner guage aluminum .060" would you not have to stop and let the aluminum cool to prevent warping before an air cooled torch would get to hot?

In that situation, IMO, your heat input would be low enough that the air cooled torch would not get uncomfortably hot regardless of how long you weld with it.

If you are on a budget, personally I would skip the water cooled torch and cooler for now and upgrade later if desired. I have welded a lot of aluminum maxing out a 250 welder and an air cooled torch. You can weld a lot before your gloved hand gets uncomfortably warm. You can also skip the cooler and just plumb the supply side of water cooled torch to the tap water and the return side to a needle valve to keep some back pressure and control the flow prior to letting it go the drain. Shop should be heated or this will lead to other issues in the winter.

If you stay with a 250 or less, for a garage hobby set up, I think a 250 amp rated air cooled torch would meet your needs. If you get more serious as time goes on it is a pretty economical upgrade.

Another tidbit to add here, make sure the Torch hoses are rubber instead of that damn rigid plastic crap that they sell as standard on them all unless you specify the better hoses. The stiff plastic is worthless, stiff and hard to maneuver as well as does not handle incidental brushes with hot objects at all (read slag or being drug along a freshly welded part).

Again just my 2 cents.

 

[Trashy]

Not bad advice to keep an eye out for a decent lightly used unit, I have seen them now and then around here.

Thanks for all the advice, loudhandle! It takes a lot of time to type out all that info but us hobby welders appreciate the pro advice..!