New Clutch on the 25 858s!!!
- Thread starter Chewy22
- Start date
All in for that. Just got done working on sh!tty polaris's all afternoon. Brakes still suck. I'm about to buy a cat master cylinder and try it.
It may help with roller bushing wear also, due to it changing the harmonics from the additional weight.
Back in the day, I had a Yamaha with a 600 twin and that thing would eat roller bushings every few hundred miles. Yamaha used the same clutch on their 700 triple and the rollers would last for thousands of miles. The 700 had more power (especially if it was piped) and the only thing that I could think of at the time, was that it must have been from the harmonics of that specific engine/clutch combo.
Back in the day, I had a Yamaha with a 600 twin and that thing would eat roller bushings every few hundred miles. Yamaha used the same clutch on their 700 triple and the rollers would last for thousands of miles. The 700 had more power (especially if it was piped) and the only thing that I could think of at the time, was that it must have been from the harmonics of that specific engine/clutch combo.
And que the aftermarket with a slew of lightweight billet spiders to replace the heavy stocker!
Seriously though, that should make it heavier than the Team roller primary too, but if it keeps them from exploding it's probably a win.
Wonder if this is why Country Cat was blowing out the original Adapt primaries for $400 last week?
Seriously though, that should make it heavier than the Team roller primary too, but if it keeps them from exploding it's probably a win.
Wonder if this is why Country Cat was blowing out the original Adapt primaries for $400 last week?
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I have gone thru (re-clutched) many sleds that come into my shop with the adapt - and have only been replacing the roller bushings- Never a cracked spring cup and only one that one sled I seen with a crack in the tower area. Never seen a spider let go and the adapts that blew the spider was intact .
1800 miles on my own adapt, and roller bushing were the only thing that were replaced. I have close to 200 mountain miles spinning 8350 rpm and the bronze bushings are still holding up.
I agree with Boondocker97- aftermarket spiders will now be "I better change that" and 99% of the buyers will never re-balance the clutch.
Wonder what Cat's theory is behind this..... sometimes bigger is not always better.
1800 miles on my own adapt, and roller bushing were the only thing that were replaced. I have close to 200 mountain miles spinning 8350 rpm and the bronze bushings are still holding up.
I agree with Boondocker97- aftermarket spiders will now be "I better change that" and 99% of the buyers will never re-balance the clutch.
Wonder what Cat's theory is behind this..... sometimes bigger is not always better.
Team Roller had steel spider as well so new adapt will probably be similar weight. The new price on Adapts might reflect a coming recall involving replacing clutches. When I worked for Ford everytime they had a recall, the price of the new replacement part would drop drastically just before the replacements began. Dealers make money on parts, recall or not. Ford was mitigating losses.
R
I have a pile of Adapts with broken spiders, be cool if they will sell it separate.
Maybe they needed more weight to absorb the harmonics?
Flinging weights is just a bad idea.
Anyone remember when you would reweight a flinging clutch for high elevation?
The weights no longer where pressed against the rollers that also created a roller problem but you would add a shim to those high elevation weights to keep contact with the roller and weight.
Check your clutch, are the weights touching the rollers?
A hand grenade waiting for the pin to be pulled.
Slop is not necessarily a good thing to fling mass..
Hope their new idea is a step in the right direction.
Anyone remember when you would reweight a flinging clutch for high elevation?
The weights no longer where pressed against the rollers that also created a roller problem but you would add a shim to those high elevation weights to keep contact with the roller and weight.
Check your clutch, are the weights touching the rollers?
A hand grenade waiting for the pin to be pulled.
Slop is not necessarily a good thing to fling mass..
Hope their new idea is a step in the right direction.
- Oct 14, 2008
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Can you explain this or post a pic?
When clutch kits were offered by some highly respected aftermarket boys a shim was added underneath the weights with a dab of silicone or not to hold the weight up against the roller, very simple thin shim, less then any weight that could be added. Back in the days when guys weighed and balanced weights 
Usually the spring was also changed out for the upper elevation so the machine rapped a little harder before engaging.
I still have a set but I'm a few miles out.
Usually the spring was also changed out for the upper elevation so the machine rapped a little harder before engaging.
I still have a set but I'm a few miles out.
F
Your opinion, sure, but why would you want the force to transfer from the roller through the cam arm to the sheave at idle. There is a lot of tolerance for parts that have a ton of machining variation as the region under the cam arm is typically cast without machining.
Spider being the shoulder for full retraction that the drive spring causes.
I am guessing when you were talking about also involved a lot of people's variation of belt deflection settings for how they like to ride as well.
Not even sure how to apply to that, these style clutches have been failing yet they keep trying to make them work.
I think I know what your saying but that clutch in the real world isn't just opening and closing, it's hanging out there off the crank taking a beating going threw woops dropping off cornices and banging approaches.
At least the rubber track can stretch and fold over.
Now they added more mass on the outside of the towers?
I think I know what your saying but that clutch in the real world isn't just opening and closing, it's hanging out there off the crank taking a beating going threw woops dropping off cornices and banging approaches.
At least the rubber track can stretch and fold over.
Now they added more mass on the outside of the towers?
It's a few years old but wait for it
The TRA is the reason for me stumbling into the powerbloc, I hated those clutches. Do you have any idea how many springs and ramps they make
Ramps are weights for them
The TRA is the reason for me stumbling into the powerbloc, I hated those clutches. Do you have any idea how many springs and ramps they make
Ramps are weights for them
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F
It's a few years old but wait for it
The TRA is the reason for me stumbling into the powerbloc, I hated those clutches. Do you have any idea how many springs and ramps they make
Ramps are weights for them
Your comment about the mass "hanging out there"... The cam arms/flyweights are actively engaged to be providing clamp to the drive belt in all of those situations. If the terrain had such an effect on the drive clutch, as you describe, you would not have any performance at all.
You know a CvTech clutch is on the Blast engine's 400 right?
Forget if that is the smaller trailbloc. CvTech has various covers for their clutches and these sliding mass clutches are not perfect as many make them out to be. They don't backshift like a cam arm/flyweight clutch because of the higher friction in the sliding contact compared to a rolling contact in a flyweight cutch.
Alterra 600 has a stamped steel cover on the CvTech while Blast has a heavier steel cast cover. As you put it... this mass is hanging out there across all the rough terrain.
Blast's Clutch:
Alterra 600:
Yes, there's a lot of manufactures using that brand.
What makes those CVTs different and with a life span of actually outlasting the chassis is the weights stay in the center. They ride the inner sheave shaft as I'm sure your aware of
They don't grind into the towers or eat rollers since there's none.
The only place I could see the faster back shifting would be on the track, can't imagine it would be noticeable on cross country but some racers might prefer the lighter, smaller clutch mass.
I don't understand why anyone would want a clutch today to spool the RPMs up before engaging?
There's no need for that anymore these bigger liter machines engage at a lower RPM without the machine stumbling somewhere threw the throttle pull. A little 6 is running well over 100 ponies.
They need to toss these clutches and go with something people can work with but that doesn't make money.
Doo really went after it with what they did to their p drives, for being such a big clutch they are very sensitive to throttle response.
I appreciate the conversation.
What makes those CVTs different and with a life span of actually outlasting the chassis is the weights stay in the center. They ride the inner sheave shaft as I'm sure your aware of
They don't grind into the towers or eat rollers since there's none.
The only place I could see the faster back shifting would be on the track, can't imagine it would be noticeable on cross country but some racers might prefer the lighter, smaller clutch mass.
I don't understand why anyone would want a clutch today to spool the RPMs up before engaging?
There's no need for that anymore these bigger liter machines engage at a lower RPM without the machine stumbling somewhere threw the throttle pull. A little 6 is running well over 100 ponies.
They need to toss these clutches and go with something people can work with but that doesn't make money.
Doo really went after it with what they did to their p drives, for being such a big clutch they are very sensitive to throttle response.
I appreciate the conversation.
- Oct 14, 2008
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P drive is a belt slipping mofo. Doo made fins on primary and secondary, redesigned the clutch enclosure, invented a new, mor
e expensive belt to resist the 200 degree belt temps. They had to overcome a crooked stationary sheave Causing belt slippage. Only pulley in the world that was intentionally designed crooked. How did they think this was a good idea?Gawd frenchies are dumb. Band aid upon band aid. I once put a Tra on a g4 and gained 4 sled lengths up a steep climb.
You ever wonder why doo dealers have a rack of over a hundred belts at all times? haha Das right, money baby.
e expensive belt to resist the 200 degree belt temps. They had to overcome a crooked stationary sheave Causing belt slippage. Only pulley in the world that was intentionally designed crooked. How did they think this was a good idea?Gawd frenchies are dumb. Band aid upon band aid. I once put a Tra on a g4 and gained 4 sled lengths up a steep climb.
You ever wonder why doo dealers have a rack of over a hundred belts at all times? haha Das right, money baby.
Remember the Xp's now those clutches loved belts. Go into an area off season and I swear there was a piece of belt here and there and over there and behind me and one hanging in a shrub and what was so strange is I never seen anything close to a complete belt, just pieces.
For the longest time I blamed the secondary, ever see someone think they can open one by hand? Me neither but it's funny.
Good times
For the longest time I blamed the secondary, ever see someone think they can open one by hand? Me neither but it's funny.
Good times
F
Yes, there's a lot of manufactures using that brand.
What makes those CVTs different and with a life span of actually outlasting the chassis is the weights stay in the center. They ride the inner sheave shaft as I'm sure your aware of
They don't grind into the towers or eat rollers since there's none.
The only place I could see the faster back shifting would be on the track, can't imagine it would be noticeable on cross country but some racers might prefer the lighter, smaller clutch mass.
I don't understand why anyone would want a clutch today to spool the RPMs up before engaging?
There's no need for that anymore these bigger liter machines engage at a lower RPM without the machine stumbling somewhere threw the throttle pull. A little 6 is running well over 100 ponies.
They need to toss these clutches and go with something people can work with but that doesn't make money.
Doo really went after it with what they did to their p drives, for being such a big clutch they are very sensitive to throttle response.
I appreciate the conversation.
For the record, your understanding of the CvTech slider block is incorrect in its function.
The slider is a mass. It actuates the movable sheave into the belt by the slider mass moving radially away from the stationary shaft/post of the clutch. Their are 2 other parts to the slider clutch that control shift but are generally standard parts. The movable sheave has a cast/machined ramp/profile in the aluminum that the slider acts against, and the angle on the steel cover. The mass wedges the sheave away from.the cover as it slides against both parts due to centrifugal mass from engine rpm.
Most idler bearing drive clutches are set for engagement above high idle of the engine which is why it might seem high when the engine idles down.
The polaris 9r with p22 engaged higher last year than cat's calibration on adapts.
I understand the CVTech quite well, words can be confusing, I have no idea why we are even squabbling over one clutch that is failing and another that has proven itself.
No matter where the moveable sheaves are at on the CVTech they are still against the cover.
Why would you be so against a clutch that works?
It's your money
No matter where the moveable sheaves are at on the CVTech they are still against the cover.
Why would you be so against a clutch that works?
It's your money
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