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GET FACTS STRAIGHT! Snowest Misleading Readers about Cooke City.

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WyoBoy1000

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There is good points and bad as in every other decisions that need to be made and you will never please everybody!

As for me if they keep 212 plowed I would certanly use it to get to our place rather than driving all the way around! On the other hand would Cooke make a parking lot or where would all the Cooke City guests park?

KJP

If Cooke became over populated with tourists (sledders) they would have to, there is plenty of campgrounds and other areas that could be plowed for parking.

Why would plowing the road stop any current grooming, other than the road itself. How would more(any more than there already is) traffic effect the wildlife.
That is ridiculous, that might be how it is with are idiotic government these days, but WTF, really. If they are going to try and close access over this stuff you need to talk to right people. They tried to do the same thing on the Big Horns and that got stomped out so fast you never heard about it.
 
W
Nov 27, 2007
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Well since nobody wants access to Cooke maybe we should just close up town in say Nov. and reopen it in say May? Shut the lights off in the fall and turn them back on in the Spring?

Nothing like seeing people who want to see our sport grow but want to hold those who accomodate us to enjoy it fail.
 
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summithd

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Nov 26, 2007
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Comment from LSB...Our communities snowmobile business has been declining due to many factors but the restrictive travel here from both the East and West do nothing to help. Through several initiatives, plowing the road being one, we can revitalize our winter sports industry in Cooke City.

Really, is it that bad - the winter sports industry needs to be revitalized in Cooke?? Are businesses struggling to keep the lights on? IIIFFF that TRULY is the case, then plow the freakin road already...OR...maybe just shut your lights off in the winter season if you can't afford to keep them on. That's the risk you take when operating a business in a town of this nature.

Woodzy..."Nothing like seeing people who want to see our sport grow but want to hold those who accomodate us to enjoy it fail." - There are plenty of businesses in Cooke that accommodate us that are not failing. Again...Are businesses INDEED failing because the road is not plowed - lets get the facts!!
 

WyoBoy1000

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Comment from LSB...Our communities snowmobile business has been declining due to many factors but the restrictive travel here from both the East and West do nothing to help. Through several initiatives, plowing the road being one, we can revitalize our winter sports industry in Cooke City.

Really, is it that bad - the winter sports industry needs to be revitalized in Cooke?? Are businesses struggling to keep the lights on? IIIFFF that TRULY is the case, then plow the freakin road already...OR...maybe just shut your lights off in the winter season if you can't afford to keep them on. That's the risk you take when operating a business in a town of this nature.

Woodzy..."Nothing like seeing people who want to see our sport grow but want to hold those who accomodate us to enjoy it fail." - There are plenty of businesses in Cooke that accommodate us that are not failing. Again...Are businesses INDEED failing because the road is not plowed - lets get the facts!!

Nothing is failing or going to bomb if the road isn't opened, at least not right away. Many think it never has changed and everything is fine so why change. Well business isn't what it once was, there is so much more time and effort put into running a business these days its not even funny. Let alone rising prices of insurance, energy, larger inventory lines, TAXES and everything else, so the fact is many things have changed. We (sledder's) can't survive in the past, if you think it can I have a few 1988 ski-doo formula plus's (from the past) I'm sure you'd just love to ride over that new sled. Fact is times have changed and in a rapidly changing world we are far behind on all fronts.

The town of Cooke City is prob the only reason the little bit of ground we have to ride is not wilderness, if you close the town we loose.
 
S

summithd

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Nothing is failing or going to bomb if the road isn't opened, at least not right away. Many think it never has changed and everything is fine so why change. Well business isn't what it once was, there is so much more time and effort put into running a business these days its not even funny. Let alone rising prices of insurance, energy, larger inventory lines, TAXES and everything else, so the fact is many things have changed. We (sledder's) can't survive in the past, if you think it can I have a few 1988 ski-doo formula plus's (from the past) I'm sure you'd just love to ride over that new sled. Fact is times have changed and in a rapidly changing world we are far behind on all fronts.

The town of Cooke City is prob the only reason the little bit of ground we have to ride is not wilderness, if you close the town we loose.

SPECULATION!
 

hockeyb4

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There are alot of things to consider when these things come up, I am glad to see all the different angles to this proposed project. There are some very vaild points of contention both for and against. As we as sledders do we will adapt and overcome no matter what the end result of this debate
 

vdo1948

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Too bad this thread turned ugly and personal, there's no need for it. It's a tactic Liberals use quite often, they run out of facts to support their argument and start personal attacks. Some people's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Last time I checked we were still practicing capitalism in this country, well mostly anyway.

I have yet to ride Cooke (would like to some time) so don't have a dog in this fight. Interesting read, but this grabbed me a little!

"Too bad this thread turned ugly and personal, there's no need for it." Totally agree! "It's a tactic Liberals use quite often, they run out of facts to support their argument and start personal attacks." And then you go and make an ugly and personal statement!! If you think only liberals do this then your eyes, ears and mind are severely closed. "Some people's hypocrisy knows no bounds." I think you can verify this every time you look in the mirror. I won't even bother dealing with the last statement.

Tell me why every disagreement has to be political? Honest men can disagree! Doesn't mean either of them is wrong. Different viewpoints are what lead us to better solutions. If you aren't willing to examine all the viewpoints and all the arguements then you are part of the problem. And IMHO one of the great problems with the USA today is that so many people are a part of that problem. This my way or the highway BS is really getting old.

Sorry for the rant.
 

w2bridin

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I am one of those freaking flatlanders that everyone out west hates and talks bad about. I sure my opinion doesnt matter to them either but I will just say we like riding cooke and the road being plowed would bring my riding group into cooke more. Having to drive in from the east unload and sled in sucks but driving all the way around takes a few extra hours and all of a sudden I can go lots of other places with the same amount of time in the pickup. I think it would bring more people in but the downside is small area will be all tracked up that much quicker. Look at the Big Horns I think all the ride in lodges are closed now and the big three on the plowed hwy are smilling. Like I said my 2 cents dont matter but sounds to me like a few locals want to keep the powder to themselves?.... Hey if any of you mtn. guys want to come to ND and spend some of that mtn. money we would love to have you there is plenty of room and we wont even bad mouth you:face-icon-small-win
 

WyoBoy1000

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Well said, w2bridin
Just to be clear, I joke about flat landers but have no prob with you guys. In fact I have met many and enjoyed riding with them, showing them around, giving pointers. So far all the F.L.'s I've met have been great guys.
 

TRS

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If you feel that the road should be plowed to Cooke City please send your comments to the members on the e-mail list in the article. Look for it on www.snowest.com. I am against the plowing but that is my opinion. I know how it feels to be left out. When Yellowstone National Park was trying to get the wolves transplanted they had a pro petition to sign at the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. I walked up to the booth and asked what was going on. The nice young lady said that they needed my signature on a petition to allow the wolves to be transplanted into Yellowstone. I said that was great, so where is the petition for me to sign not to transplant the wolves? They didn't have one. I said isn't this a democracy? I asked the nice young lady where do I voice my opinion? No answer. People standing near by started to ask the same question. So yes please send an e-mail if you are a proponent.
 
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skidoorulz

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Nov 21, 2007
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The people who say it sucks to ride in the 10 miles from the east really make me wonder what kind of snowmobilers they are be it locals or flatlanders. I have never had anytime on a sled that I would say sucked. I have ridden in on that road for almost 30 years and it has never sucked. When I would spend time up there before the CJSH was a good road I had a fold a sled and loaded it with our gear and change of clothes and went to town. It never sucked. And that was on John Deeres Kawasakis Scorpians and old pre IFS Polarisis. (yea I've been riding awhile)The only times that it may have sucked just a little bit was the ride out and that was only because we were going home:face-icon-small-fro. I just can't understand why having to ride 10 miles in to town on a snowmobile would stop a true snowmobiler from coming in that way. No more people will come to Cooke if it is plowed. To the one who said there are no ride in accomodations in the Horns is wrong. There is one big one called the Wyoming High Country on the Lovell side and it always looks to me like it is packed. The Bear Lodge side I could not tell you much about.
 

007

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I really think for the first year or two it would be cool if the road was plowed, but after that the remoteness and esthetics of the mountain valley town of Cooke City would be lost. Then you might see less snowsports in Cooke in the long run?

I do know that is what brought my family and I there! I do hope that this gets hashed over and the good and bads get weighed out before it passes either way.

KJP
 

WyoBoy1000

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I say it sucks, in some ways (riding is still riding though and I'm down with it either way) I had to ride to town from pilot creek to get a sticker and while there I filled up. I burned 1.3gallons of gas, thats one way. at the very least I would prob burn .7 gal. So even at 1 gal average thats 2gal both directions. To me thats lost time riding the good stuff.

I may be pushing one side of this but I do get the other side, I would love to keep the goods to myself and friends. Problem is if your a sledder, well your a friend. just how I roll.
 
B

B C

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I have yet to ride Cooke (would like to some time) so don't have a dog in this fight. Interesting read, but this grabbed me a little!

"Too bad this thread turned ugly and personal, there's no need for it." Totally agree!

"It's a tactic Liberals use quite often, they run out of facts to support their argument and start personal attacks." And then you go and make an ugly and personal statement!! If you think only liberals do this then your eyes, ears and mind are severely closed.

I made a statement about a post, not a personal attack on anyone. I actually agree with alot of what khogen said. And honestly some of the posts on here have really made me think about my position on the subject. However, some of the statements made were uncalled for and had no bearing on this discussion. And OK, so not only liberals do this...sue me.

"Some people's hypocrisy knows no bounds." I think you can verify this every time you look in the mirror.

Really? Because I don't see hypocrisy in my post-like I said, I didn't personally attack anyone.(kind of like you are doing) And honestly, you don't know me so STFU.

I won't even bother dealing with the last statement.

Good, I didn't really intend to make this a political discussion. And quite frankly I don't really care what your thoughts are on the subject.

Tell me why every disagreement has to be political? Honest men can disagree! Doesn't mean either of them is wrong. Different viewpoints are what lead us to better solutions. If you aren't willing to examine all the viewpoints and all the arguements then you are part of the problem. And IMHO one of the great problems with the USA today is that so many people are a part of that problem. This my way or the highway BS is really getting old.

Sorry for the rant.

I totally agree with your last statement. Opposing viewpoints are great, personal attacks not so much. They are uncalled for and useless in the discussion. Let me know if you need me to repeat that last part. If you go back and read my first post I state.."Honestly I have mixed feelings on the whole deal." Does that sound like it's my way or the highway? Please read before you post, you'll save everyone time. I'll try keep the politics out of my future posts if it will keep you from personally attacking them and me.

AND, thanks so much for adding value to the discussion on PLOWING THE ROAD TO COOKE. Browse around a while, I'm sure you'll find some other posts of mine to tear apart.

Back to the original subject....

I'm a bit torn still. I have made some great friends in Cooke over the years and would love nothing more than to see them prosper. They have run successful business', treat us like locals and derserve it. I'm a small business owner in a small MT town on a road that goes nowhere, and I can relate with them.

On the other hand the more I think about it, I do love the mystique of Cooke. And honestly that's probably part of what takes me there along with the killer riding, and lack of cell service. We don't seem to have a problem with ever finding fresh snow, so that doesn't worry me. But if there is any validity to access to the Beartooths being lost I would be against it.

I'd like to hear some more from both sides, for the most part this has been a good discussion.

And remember folks, the political police are watching! (Oh man, does that make me a hypocrite?)
 
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freak485

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Well Said BC

Also being from a small town and seeing small business suffer over the last few years i don't wish that on any business, in fact id love to see them grow. But to what extent? We really don't know how many more sledders it would bring to cooke. And also with the possibility of loosing access to the beartooths.

There are alot of things that will take play into this with different agency on how things will be handled and funded.

Its not just a simple Yes or no and theirs no reason for people to get nasty over it.
 
T

Turbo11T

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Nov 26, 2007
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Snowest Digitally just published an article titled " Help Save Snowmobiling In NW Wyoming, Cooke City Area "

This article is VERY misleading. They are attempting to scare snowmobilers into thinking that a trail system is being attacked and that they must act now. I want you to stop and think for a second.

First I can guarantee you they contacted no one from Cooke City in researching this article and if they did the options of who are very small.

I have been fighting this issue for quite a while now and have recently been fighting very hard as things are heating up. This is NOT an anti snowmobiler movement. This is a movement by businesses to grow our town and bring more snowmobilers to our community. I am going to copy and paste a lot of info here for you to peruse:

_________

We want to accomplish several things. 1) We want to keep the highway open year round. There is a small 8 mile stretch of highway that keeps visitors from driving to Cooke City from the East for 8 months every year. 2) We want to work with the Forest Service to maintain a snowmobile trail connecting our area with the Top of the World area. 3) We want to work with whatever agencies are responsible in order to maintain adequate parking for our community. In short we are devoted to re-energizing our community as a premier snowmobile destination. We simply want people to be able to access Cooke City.

If we maintain our current trail system while creating more access we will give snowmobilers and winter recreationists in the Billings, MT area (our state's largest city) greater access to our town.

Do not let this viewpoint be labeled anti snowmobiling. It is not. Our communities snowmobile business has been declining due to many factors but the restrictive travel here from both the East and West do nothing to help. Through several initiatives, plowing the road being one, we can revitalize our winter sports industry in Cooke City.
___________________

Items to think about:

This road recently underwent a major repair/remodeling federal aid project which lasted for 6 years. They widened and straightened most of the 10+ miles we are talking about. How many millions of taxpayer dollars were spent on this highway to have it covered with snow for 8 months every year?

Billings area snowmobilers would have greater access to a large riding area WITH services, dealerships, restaurants, if they could drive into town. They can currently snowmobile in but must leave their trucks and trailers parked 10 miles away. I know many Billings riders who find it easier to go to the Big Horns etc. POINT IS: Visitors should have easier access from the east.

This parking situation from the East also forces visitors who are only planning on riding in the Montana areas to purchase a Wyoming non resident sticker or face fines simply to return to their vehicles. With the road plowed but a trail system created to connect us to the Wyoming trail system, visitors would have a choice of which stickers to buy depending on where they wanted to ride.Many riders would drive on in to Cooke City ride our area and never purchase a Wyo sticker. Their revenue would drop as a result. Maybe they would have to advertise themselves a little more instead of relying on residents of this town to do it for them. KEY POINT: This is why WySSA will never be for it. It doesn't matter if our town benefits or declines.

Safety for local residents is another concern. Currently the only way to drive into Cooke City, MT in the winter is through Yellowstone National Park. During a winter like our current one there are many times when the roads are closed in the park due to heavy snowfall. The plows maintain the roads during daylight hours and after that either the roads are unmaintained or they will gate them off if weather is too bad. There have been times when both visitors and residents have been stranded outside the locked gates. This could result in a horrible situation during a medical emergency.

Most glaringly it just seems “stupid” that a small section of highway such as this is closed off for so much of the year in such a popular destination. There are plenty of other examples of highway stretches with similar snowfall and more dangerous conditions that are kept open year round. The entire Chief Joseph Hwy is plowed plus the portion on 212 to Pilot Creek parking lot. From the west, YNP plows from Mammoth to the eastern edge of our town. 10 miles are left closed for what reason? POINT IS: You have already plowed the first 100 miles from either direction, why not the last 8-10?

We already have a trail that runs from town south of the highway to Lulu. If levelheaded people came together why on earth could we not continue a trail along the highway all the way out to Pilot which would then join up with the trail that goes behind the B4. Now I am not talking about a trail like we currently have that is 4 and 5 groomers wide, but more likely one and two wide if possible. Most trails anywhere are two wide max.

About the study done which they quote numbers and monetary figures from. That study was done 10 years ago. That wouldn't any weight in any scientific forum. I can simply show you my books to show the decline, or look at sticker sales, etc etc.

I'll stop with this. No matter what others say, this was never done on purpose. Cooke City literally was the end of the road for years with very few wintertime residents. Wyoming plowed into Crandall and later on to the B4 in Wyoming. Snowmobiling popped up as a new activity and took advantage of a highway which had been literally abandoned by any state or federal authority during the winter seasons. BUT, it is still just that, a Federal Highway first. The road in debate is not a snowmobile trail, it is a federal highway with room to route a new smaller snowmobile trail alongside it.


Many of you know me, and know how much effort I have put into this community over the past decade. I will not let this be turned into anything remotely anti snowmobiling.


Robert

Plow that darn road!!!! Put a snowmobile trail next to it. . . And put a couple parking lots along the road for snowmobilers. These guys that park in the lots for a weekend ride will come into town for gas and food. And I would guess the people who would choose Cooke as a snowmobile destination would double. We really love it there but don't care to drive through the park or leave our vehicle in a parking lot 11 miles away for a week.

Any idea of the cost to keep the road open?
 

TRS

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Lets look at this from a different angle. Look up these organizations on the web. Yellowstone Business Partnership www.yellowstonebusiness.org , Deleware North Company www.delawarenorth.com ,also Linx www.linx.coop
The YBP is advocating plowing the so called plug (Cooke to Pilot) along with plowing internal roads of Yellowstone National Park. While you visit their site,www.yellowstonebusiness.org look at their member list.
Delaware North is coming to West Yellowstone. Click on their destination list.
Linx is a public transportation group run by the Yellowstone Business Partnership. Bus Tours. They want a seamless transportation system throughout the 27 county Greater Yellowstone service area.
After reading info on these sites you decide why they want the plug plowed. They are going to drive through Cooke City and wave goodbye in their rear view mirror. Taking all the benefit of the open road with them$$$$$$. Do you think us wee snowmobilers are going to have a chance.
 
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firecatguy

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End of the Road!!
The people who say it sucks to ride in the 10 miles from the east really make me wonder what kind of snowmobilers they are be it locals or flatlanders. I have never had anytime on a sled that I would say sucked. I have ridden in on that road for almost 30 years and it has never sucked. When I would spend time up there before the CJSH was a good road I had a fold a sled and loaded it with our gear and change of clothes and went to town. It never sucked. And that was on John Deeres Kawasakis Scorpians and old pre IFS Polarisis. (yea I've been riding awhile)The only times that it may have sucked just a little bit was the ride out and that was only because we were going home:face-icon-small-fro. I just can't understand why having to ride 10 miles in to town on a snowmobile would stop a true snowmobiler from coming in that way. No more people will come to Cooke if it is plowed. To the one who said there are no ride in accomodations in the Horns is wrong. There is one big one called the Wyoming High Country on the Lovell side and it always looks to me like it is packed. The Bear Lodge side I could not tell you much about.


Ya If we lived 2hrs away that would not be a problem at all....now put yourself in OUR shoes, 17hr truck ride!!!!now you have to get up ride out of town load,change its alot better to load after riding get a good night sleep grab coffee at 430am and hit the road.........easy fix for us was find a new place to ride so we can do that.......Like riding cooke, but the xtra hrs to drive in sent us to Wyoming Area......
 
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