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GET FACTS STRAIGHT! Snowest Misleading Readers about Cooke City.

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LSB

Well-known member
Snowest Digitally just published an article titled " Help Save Snowmobiling In NW Wyoming, Cooke City Area "

This article is VERY misleading. They are attempting to scare snowmobilers into thinking that a trail system is being attacked and that they must act now. I want you to stop and think for a second.

First I can guarantee you they contacted no one from Cooke City in researching this article and if they did the options of who are very small.

I have been fighting this issue for quite a while now and have recently been fighting very hard as things are heating up. This is NOT an anti snowmobiler movement. This is a movement by businesses to grow our town and bring more snowmobilers to our community. I am going to copy and paste a lot of info here for you to peruse:

_________

We want to accomplish several things. 1) We want to keep the highway open year round. There is a small 8 mile stretch of highway that keeps visitors from driving to Cooke City from the East for 8 months every year. 2) We want to work with the Forest Service to maintain a snowmobile trail connecting our area with the Top of the World area. 3) We want to work with whatever agencies are responsible in order to maintain adequate parking for our community. In short we are devoted to re-energizing our community as a premier snowmobile destination. We simply want people to be able to access Cooke City.

If we maintain our current trail system while creating more access we will give snowmobilers and winter recreationists in the Billings, MT area (our state's largest city) greater access to our town.

Do not let this viewpoint be labeled anti snowmobiling. It is not. Our communities snowmobile business has been declining due to many factors but the restrictive travel here from both the East and West do nothing to help. Through several initiatives, plowing the road being one, we can revitalize our winter sports industry in Cooke City.
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Items to think about:

This road recently underwent a major repair/remodeling federal aid project which lasted for 6 years. They widened and straightened most of the 10+ miles we are talking about. How many millions of taxpayer dollars were spent on this highway to have it covered with snow for 8 months every year?

Billings area snowmobilers would have greater access to a large riding area WITH services, dealerships, restaurants, if they could drive into town. They can currently snowmobile in but must leave their trucks and trailers parked 10 miles away. I know many Billings riders who find it easier to go to the Big Horns etc. POINT IS: Visitors should have easier access from the east.

This parking situation from the East also forces visitors who are only planning on riding in the Montana areas to purchase a Wyoming non resident sticker or face fines simply to return to their vehicles. With the road plowed but a trail system created to connect us to the Wyoming trail system, visitors would have a choice of which stickers to buy depending on where they wanted to ride.Many riders would drive on in to Cooke City ride our area and never purchase a Wyo sticker. Their revenue would drop as a result. Maybe they would have to advertise themselves a little more instead of relying on residents of this town to do it for them. KEY POINT: This is why WySSA will never be for it. It doesn't matter if our town benefits or declines.

Safety for local residents is another concern. Currently the only way to drive into Cooke City, MT in the winter is through Yellowstone National Park. During a winter like our current one there are many times when the roads are closed in the park due to heavy snowfall. The plows maintain the roads during daylight hours and after that either the roads are unmaintained or they will gate them off if weather is too bad. There have been times when both visitors and residents have been stranded outside the locked gates. This could result in a horrible situation during a medical emergency.

Most glaringly it just seems “stupid” that a small section of highway such as this is closed off for so much of the year in such a popular destination. There are plenty of other examples of highway stretches with similar snowfall and more dangerous conditions that are kept open year round. The entire Chief Joseph Hwy is plowed plus the portion on 212 to Pilot Creek parking lot. From the west, YNP plows from Mammoth to the eastern edge of our town. 10 miles are left closed for what reason? POINT IS: You have already plowed the first 100 miles from either direction, why not the last 8-10?

We already have a trail that runs from town south of the highway to Lulu. If levelheaded people came together why on earth could we not continue a trail along the highway all the way out to Pilot which would then join up with the trail that goes behind the B4. Now I am not talking about a trail like we currently have that is 4 and 5 groomers wide, but more likely one and two wide if possible. Most trails anywhere are two wide max.

About the study done which they quote numbers and monetary figures from. That study was done 10 years ago. That wouldn't any weight in any scientific forum. I can simply show you my books to show the decline, or look at sticker sales, etc etc.

I'll stop with this. No matter what others say, this was never done on purpose. Cooke City literally was the end of the road for years with very few wintertime residents. Wyoming plowed into Crandall and later on to the B4 in Wyoming. Snowmobiling popped up as a new activity and took advantage of a highway which had been literally abandoned by any state or federal authority during the winter seasons. BUT, it is still just that, a Federal Highway first. The road in debate is not a snowmobile trail, it is a federal highway with room to route a new smaller snowmobile trail alongside it.


Many of you know me, and know how much effort I have put into this community over the past decade. I will not let this be turned into anything remotely anti snowmobiling.


Robert
 
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skidoorulz

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2007
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Billings Montana
LSB I am one of those Billings area snowmobilers that you say would come to Cooke City if the road was plowed all the way to town. I have been coming to Cooke City since the early eighties. Back when the CJSH was gravel most of the way. Back when that road was only plowed on Thursday. Back when if you went in you did not know if you were going to get back out. But I went anyway. That did not stop me from coming to Cooke City and that last 10 miles of unplowed road has never stopped me from coming to Cooke City. I have not been to Cooke for the last 3 or 4 years and yess you are right, I have been going to the Big Horns. The Big Horns are what Cooke used to be, the snow is not quite as good but you can go all day and not see anyone and find untracked powder even days after a snowfall. In Cooke it is only untracked for hours after a snow fall. What has kept me from coming to Cooke is the amount of people coming there now. And the attitude that some of them bring with the money they bring. If the business people of Cooke want the road plowed into Cooke so be it, that won't bring me or many other sledders from the Billings area back to Cooke. But if it does start getting plowed then the business owners and residents of Cooke need to pay for it them selves. Wyoming has nothing to gain by plowing their section and neither does Montana, so the taxpayers of MT and Wy should not have to pay to plow that road so a few can put more money in their pocket. The cost should be footed by the Cooke City business people. Another problem you are not taking into consideration is where are all these people going to park in Cooke that currently park at pilot creek, and the amount of money that would need to be spent to build an alternative trail to link up to the Beartooth trail
 
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LSB

Well-known member
Well I tried not to type a novel but yes you are right and we are aware of the few problems that would have to be taken care of. We feel though that we should sit down and solve them rather than avoid them.

I can appreciate your feelings about coming here although I know plenty of Billings area riders who do still ride here and would like to have access to the amenities.

Now let me try to refute your taxpayer comment. First of all the taxpayers of MT and WY already DID pay for the road to be made and more recently for a huge upgrade project. All that money sits under snow for 8 months. Second the plows are already paid to run 100 miles from each side, then they stop and turn around. So, it is not as if you'd have to get all new plows etc, and start from scratch. The machines are on the road, have already plowed 100 miles and are just stopping before the last few.

There are plenty of folks in Cody, Wyoming that believe Wyoming could have something to gain. And of course Montana has something to gain. Opening up more access to a prime wintertime destination to create more revenue is a gain!

Don't take this as an argument, just a rebuttal of some of your points.
 
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skidoorulz

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2007
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Billings Montana
How would Cody benefit by plowing the road? Why would opening the road open up anymore prime wintertime recreation? Most everyone that comes up there comes to snowmobile. If you have a snowmobile you can access all the prime wintertime recreation that is in that country. No more can be opened up because you are surrounded by wilderness and YNP. And face it, people who come to Cooke come to snowmobile. Sure there are a few hardcore skiers but they have sleds also. The family people who want to take the kids sledding in the hills for the day are never going to drive to Cooke to do it. Face it the oppurtunities to make money in Cooke are limited summer and winter and plowing the road is not going to change that.

Also I do not take this as an argument
 
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B C

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
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Montucky
Honestly I have mixed feelings on the whole deal. I hate to see one of my favorite riding areas get more traffic. But, if it helps the business' in Cooke City I'm all for it. With the decline in riders we are lucky there are still great business' open all winter. Let's help them out as much as possible. Opening that road will be a significant boost to the local economy, not much to argue there. Be sure to let us know if we need to write/ call anyone Rob, we'll sure do what we can.

skidoorulz- I know you've been riding up there a long time, as have I. But if you can't find fresh pow hours after a storm, you are missing a lot of great areas. I can find untouched snow days after a storm-everytime.
 
M
Rock on LSB. Coming to Cooke from WI, it would be nice to drive in from the WY side. This time of the year, you probably can't drive in yet. I need my truck in town with av fuel and parts, so I drive 3 hrs more to come in by the park. Then I generally can't ride sled out of Cooke to get to top of the world (no snow connecting the two) Also I think snowmobilers are missing the big picture, how many driving tourist would like to access the winter beauty of the park from the WY side? Anyway, see you in town this Fri, LSB:sun:
 

ragincajun

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
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Great Falls Mt
wow i did not know there was an 8-10 mile section that was un plowed. would more access take away from the hotels since more people can make it a day trip?...but then again there would probably be more out of town people that would come and stay. i would hate to see cooke turn into the next west yellowstone as far as rider numbers go but if it helps the economy for Cooke City im all for it. thanks for putting this up
 
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khogan

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2007
102
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Bozeman, MT
Leave it alone.

Nothing good can come out of plowing the road. Number 1, there is a huge cost to simply plow that last 9 miles as it has the most snow. 2, there is not enough room in Cooke to park all of the rigs that currently park at Pilot Creek. Main street will be lined with enclosed trailers. Snowplowing will be a B^%$&, access to bars, restaurants and hotels will suck. I personally like to park my sled outside my room, that will be gone as there will be a rig from MN, WI, ND parked there. 3, Trails will have to be built from town to Daisy and Lulu, you won't be able to buzz up the highway for access. Do you have a plan here? The money and clearing will be the easy part of that deal. The enviro impact and permitting will be a several year nighmare. 4, YNP does not want to plow the road to Cooke. I am betting within 3 years of plowing 212....YNP will be closed and there will be NO access from the west unless you drive the 300 miles down to CJ Hwy. Is the greed of Cooke City motels to get the mid west riders access going to be able to do without any western US riders? 5, It is Cooke City. That is the mystique of Cooke City, ride in, ride out. Leave well enough alone, you knew the game when you purchased the motel. Don't make this another West Yellowstone.

Funny that I never heard these complaints from winter resident pioneers like Darrel Crab.

Last, is this what everyone in Cooke would like to see or only the Motel owners? I know myself being a property owner in Cooke does not want this.
 
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LSB

Well-known member
To KHogan

Boy that sure is a lot of talking points and misinformation that you are spitting out there. I wonder where you got those facts? Let me see if I can sift through it and answer some things.

1) Cost, the plows have already run 100 miles from either direction, plowing the last few miles, while difficult, is not a huge cost. Have you done research to back up your assertion or did you just hear that from somewhere and take it as fact?

2) Another talking point. If you would take the time to read the information I have put out there, NO ONE wants to just plow the road. We want to solve all the problems, like parking, and THEN plow. Read first!

3) Trails? What? You obviously don't ride here. We already have trails that leave town and hit all these spots. Miller connects to Daisy. There is a groomed trail that runs along the highway south of town and goes all the way to Lulu. If you want one more connection to Daisy, connect it to that trail.

4) This is a huge myth and wives-tale spread by people like yourself who don't want the road opened. The road from Gardiner to Cooke is the road which connects us to our County Seat, provides our police protection, is our US mail route, it's an official school route. Before you say things why don't you fact check them. Have you talked with anyone at the county level about your statement? I have.

5) And then blah blah you go off and get personal and spit out things about an "aura" as if it was done on purpose. The road was never purposely left un-plowed to create any "mystique". There are always people who fight change. That's fine you are one of them.

6) Another myth. People are using the name of Darrel Crab now in some made up legend as if he personally created Cooke City, and purposely piled snow on the road to block traffic. Did you know that Darrel Crab and a few others were some of the first people over 20 years ago to hire private crews from Cody to plow this road open as early as possible, long before the park ever pushed it open. They wanted people to have access to here as well.

Get your facts straight. Its obvious you got them from one source and didn't do any research on your own.

This road opening would boost the local economy and put tax dollars into the state of Montana, simple as that. Try again.
 
W
Nov 27, 2007
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Nothing good can come out of plowing the road. Number 1, there is a huge cost to simply plow that last 9 miles as it has the most snow. 2, there is not enough room in Cooke to park all of the rigs that currently park at Pilot Creek. Main street will be lined with enclosed trailers. Snowplowing will be a B^%$&, access to bars, restaurants and hotels will suck. I personally like to park my sled outside my room, that will be gone as there will be a rig from MN, WI, ND parked there. 3, Trails will have to be built from town to Daisy and Lulu, you won't be able to buzz up the highway for access. Do you have a plan here? The money and clearing will be the easy part of that deal. The enviro impact and permitting will be a several year nighmare. 4, YNP does not want to plow the road to Cooke. I am betting within 3 years of plowing 212....YNP will be closed and there will be NO access from the west unless you drive the 300 miles down to CJ Hwy. Is the greed of Cooke City motels to get the mid west riders access going to be able to do without any western US riders? 5, It is Cooke City. That is the mystique of Cooke City, ride in, ride out. Leave well enough alone, you knew the game when you purchased the motel. Don't make this another West Yellowstone.

Funny that I never heard these complaints from winter resident pioneers like Darrel Crab.

Last, is this what everyone in Cooke would like to see or only the Motel owners? I know myself being a property owner in Cooke does not want this.
I take it you ride around 300 miles to the East to ride the extra 10 mile stretch? Give me a break, you are already on the West side of the access, tell me what you know about the riding in and the true mystique you talk of. Maybe you should drive around to the East on every trip and ride in, sledders form the east have been doing it for years.

Sounds like you want to leave it the way it is because the poor access to other sledder groups means less traffic for you personally to deal with both parking in town and people possibly out riding.

More access from more sledders will give the Cooke City area more opportunity to develop and grow, good for tourism and the local economy. Of course the people who work there and own businesses are going to want this, they should.
 
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khogan

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2007
102
61
28
Bozeman, MT
Try again Robert. How come you are one of only a handful of Cooke City (full time) residents that want this? Everyone I know in Cooke...does not. You and your minute following will ruin Cooke City if this happens.

Don't know the trails.....I have owned property there for 20 years. I have been going to Cooke upwards of around 40 trips/year since 1976. I know my Cooke City history and I know that you want to make a quick buck and F&^% it up for the rest of us. If the road is plowed, we will never get a trail again linking Cooke to the Beartooth's.

Miller Trail....really? You want every sled from Cooke to run up Miller. You are a genius. The double wide groom on the highway gets destroyed with the volume and you want to send them ALL up Miller??? Do you even ride sleds or just have one to say you do? Show me a petition with signatures from even 30% of the full time resident locals promoting this then I will believe the bull**** you are publishing.

Your "initimate" knowledge of the county seat BS....The county doesn't pay to plow YNP. The federal government does. You get another access, they will close it.

I am in the heavy equipment business. I know what it costs to run and maintain that equipment. Those 9 miles will cost a fortune to plow as will the additional plowing in town to accomodate all the vehicles that would/should be at Pilot Creek.

The fact is, you want to pad your wallet with park visitors and more out of state riders. YOU will destroy Cooke City, you will destroy the riding at everyone else's expense. Name me 5 other destination ride in, ride out locations in the Western US - and YOU are going to screw this one up.

As a general rule, I try not to argue with idiots as sometimes the audience doesn't know the difference. You continue with your BS diatribe about how much better it will be. I will fight it tooth and nail. IF you get this open in 2 years Cooke City will be an entirely different place and snowmobilers will not like it. Put your mouth were the $ is and that is with the riders that come out and spend good money in Cooke already. See if you can replace that income with your Subaru driving, wolf watching friends.

Rock on SnoWest - Don't plow the highway.
 
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khogan

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2007
102
61
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Bozeman, MT
Woodzy- Does living in the Billings area for 25 years and driving Sunlight before it was a highway and still gravel count? Or riding the switchbacks +65 miles (if you know what those are) count with a backpack of clothes to spend the night? The 9 mile drive is not that big of deal. Screwing up Cooke City is a huge deal.

Your statement it can develop and grow, it is surrounded by wilderness and national park. How is it going to grow??? The only thing this is going to do is eliminate trails/access to the Beartooth's and add more sledders to a limited area.
 
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LSB

Well-known member
Try again Robert. How come you are one of only a handful of Cooke City (full time) residents that want this? Everyone I know in Cooke...does not. You and your minute following will ruin Cooke City if this happens.

Again sir/mam the Chamber conducted a survey amongst its membership which concluded that around 70% wanted it open, 20% did not, and 10% had no comment. Every rider up Miller?? Did you read anything I typed?? You have still stated nothing based in fact, but have definitely resorted to rudeness and name calling. The rest of your rant is not even worth responding to, a bunch of allegations that anyone who knows me would laugh at.

If road closures are such a great idea why don't we keep it closed year round?

I'm going to support whichever local group wants to stop plowing 19th street in Bozeman all year, it should be "dirtbikes with snow-conversion kits" only. That makes plenty of sense doesn't it?

You probably support the same groups I do right? BRC? CBU? Multiple use type organizations correct? But, that's only when it comes to those other places. In YOUR private little Cooke City only one particular group should have access to a federal highway and we shouldn't work together to solve issues? Real "multiple use" of you there buddy!

I have a question for you. Your property, cabin, whatever you have up here, did you get a satellite dish put on it? Have you upgraded from candles to light bulbs yet? Change is good for some but not for others? And only the change you want is good right?

Now please, say something wise and hateful.
 
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khogan

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2007
102
61
28
Bozeman, MT
Last I checked, there still is year round use of that highway. And under its current configuration a trail that will take you about 65 miles over the Beartooth's (to 10 miles south of Red Lodge). That will all be discontinued with your "masterplan" for improving your personal wealth. Environmental groups for years have been trying to close that trail (and at times have had it closed). Voluntarily vacating it will only seal its closure for good. Ultimately, you will be long gone, and the users will suffer. But, you will hopefully have profitted.

Again, publish the list of business owners/names that promote and that don't promote. Let's see how many true old school residents, not just the flash in the pans like yourself, want the highway plowed year round. You have stated your statistics, now show us who.

Oh, and no, I don't have satellite TV, electricity, and I oppose a cell tower in Cooke. Again, don't take away the simple charms of the area. That is what makes it unique.

But I am sure someone will take the money, much like yourself, and plunk in a pretty cell tower right in town.
 
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