Help! M1000 bog at 6900 to 7400

M1000Mod162 · Dec 27, 2009

hey guys I still cant figure this out and Ive tried about everything I can think of to fix it. The sled runs great to 6800 and it runs pretty good past 7400. If I get the motor hot it will just about go away and run good but if i shut it off for a min and take back off it wont even rev past 6900 some times it just loads up and hits and misses. Ive tried going real lean and real rich and everything in between with no fix. Ive checked the reeds, ecu, compression, spark and its all good. Ive tried three diffrent pipes including the stock exhaust with the bd box unhooked. I have looked at all my grounds and wires and nothing seems to be wrong. Im running bdx valve deletes and have been for two seasons so i dont think its powervalves. Is there anything Ive overlooked that could be causing this problem. Please any help would be appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you all

arctic matt · Dec 27, 2009

I'm not saying this is what is wrong with yours, I'm just throwing out some ideas for you. My friend's sled (Modded M7) started running bad last year. We checked everything like you have done, but we couldn't ever figure it out. It would run fine sometimes, but bog and sputter at other times. It got so bad it wouldn't run at all. What we finally figured out was that he was getting ice built up on the three gas pickups inside the gas tank. At times there were little tiny chunks of ice getting up to the fuel pump, and that what was causing his sled to bog and sputter, and the whole bottom of the tank was nothing but a solid block of ice. All you have to do if that is what's wrong with yours is drop a match down inside the gas tank, and all the ice will be gone!!! Just kidding...don't do that!! We took the fuel pump out, as well as those pick ups, and let them dry out. DON'T fill the tank completely full, because we had to do this three times before we got all the moisture out, but once we did...it ran great! Good luck with your problem and I hope you can get it running again!

M1000Mod162 · Dec 27, 2009

Ok I checked the pick up filters and they are fine no ice at all

arctic matt · Dec 27, 2009

Hmmmmm, sorry that wasn't that. Like I said.... just throwin' out some ideas for ya. I know you've had the BDX valves for a while, but do you still have the stock ones? Maybe the BDX ones are not functioning correctly anymore, and throwing on the stock ones might work. Just another idea, good luck again...these types of things can get really frustrating!

black swan · Dec 27, 2009

sure its electrical or fuel...........maybe a bad primary spring??

pm'd ya

M1000Mod162 · Dec 27, 2009

can a bad primary spring do this? I dont think its fuel Ive had the sled dialed in pretty well last year and those maps are not working and I cant make it work with fuel settings so i think its electrical! I just dont know!! I think the only things it could be is maybe the injectors or the stator at this point unless the relay for the valves isnt working but it seems like if it failed it would trigger a check engine light like it does when its unpluged

claydogm8 · Dec 27, 2009

My buddy's 09 m1000 had a similar problem and it ended up being a bad fuel pump. after it was replaced it cleared up.

black swan · Dec 27, 2009

normally, they stick the sheeves closed.....and the sled will act like its in gear when starting........but the point is they bind, making the weights unable to work the sheeves....but then again you'd notice it at all rpms by the lag...

M1000Mod162 · Dec 27, 2009

claydogm8 said:
My buddy's 09 m1000 had a similar problem and it ended up being a bad fuel pump. after it was replaced it cleared up.

How did your buddy ever figure out that it was the fuel pump? I have had two fail on me since ive owned the sled but they always just completly quit working and the sled wouldnt even start.

WyoBoy1000 · Dec 27, 2009

It sounds just like the PV servo motor is going out??? How does the delete override the servo motor, maybe something is wrong there and the ecu thinks there not opening and causing a problem. Put on a fuel pressure gauge to check the pump while riding. check your secondary rollers to see if they are loose and need replaced and pull the clutch springs and check them to. also check your primary rollers, and make sure your weights are set in the center and not moving.

M1000Mod162 · Dec 27, 2009

Everything in the clutches is brand new secondary and primary. The bdx delete kit comes with a relay that goes in place of the servo motor and I wonder if thats not the problem myself, but it gets way worse when i unplug that relay and a check engine light also starts flashing when its gone so as far as the relay goes I asume its working but i dont have any way to check that it is. I will call bdx tomorrow to see if they have had any problems with their relays and what they do when they fail.

Thank you for all the input so far guys Im really hoping I can fix this problem.

Anyone think it could be the stator by any chance? The headlights are real bright and it doesnt show any signs of failure but im running out of things it could be!!

I dont have a pressure gauge to check the fuel pressure is there anyway I can check it without buying one? Or where can I get a pressure gauge.

claydogm8 · Dec 27, 2009

It would run till you shut it off then it wouldn't start and it finally quit working and the dealer replaced it. but if you've already replaced it a few times then it may be something else. Good luck.

slyrydr · Dec 27, 2009

stator is good possibility.....a weak fuel injector also (take off both injectors, put 9 volt power to both of them as you are blowing thru them, if one is weaker or not opening fully, you can tell)...plugs fresh?....another possibility, is if water from melted snow gets on the connectors coming from the ecu, it will cause erratic electrical problems, dry off with hairdryer, make cover for that area with one sided sticky aluminum tape....the clear plastic tube that comes out of the ecu, make sure there is nothing obstructing the inside, and make sure it is routed correctly, should end up just to the inside of the oil bottle, and pointed down so water doesn't get in....sometimes if i just threaten it with my .44 mag, it will come right around..

Arctic Thunder · Dec 27, 2009

Here is a post that I started. I just put the link in to save some typing.

Let me know if you have questions.

Thunder

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189586

M1000Mod162 · Dec 27, 2009

Arctic Thunder said:
Here is a post that I started. I just put the link in to save some typing.

Let me know if you have questions.

Thunder

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189586

my problem isnt from being lean it is rich my egts are at like 650 degrees when this bog occurs its only getting up to a 1000 on long wot pulls! Checked the piston wash and its rich there is oil and gas dripping of the cylinder walls when you look through the exhaust ports. plugs are real brown with straight av gas

Arctic Thunder · Dec 28, 2009

M1000Mod162 said:
my problem isnt from being lean it is rich my egts are at like 650 degrees when this bog occurs its only getting up to a 1000 on long wot pulls! Checked the piston wash and its rich there is oil and gas dripping of the cylinder walls when you look through the exhaust ports. plugs are real brown with straight av gas

I hear ya. But

M1000Mod162 said:
The sled runs great to 6800 and it runs pretty good past 7400

What I have found is they sled runs great up to the point the exhaust valves open, and this is around 6800 depending on TPS, air temp, motor load and and a bunch of other crap. But the instant they open and it isn't ever at the same RPM the ECU is programed to dump in more fuel. When this happens the sled instantly goes rich. To the point of making, typically the mag side, cylinder drop out and have very low egt's all the way through. Mine would get to the point it would drop out from being so rich the only way I could clean it up was to back way out and start over and punch it through this rpm range.

Your right it is really rich when they open, but just before the PV's open it is just right. Or to damn rich for the rest of the range. The only way I have found around this is to use the Boondocker box and use the TPS control to adjust the fuel when the PV's open up.

So I agree you are to rich after that RPM range. I would bet money that this is the exact same time the PV's open and the ECU is calling for a lot more fuel.

What I found was I can add 4 points of fuel prior to the PV's opening (This is with a base fuel pressure of 49psi). The second they open I cut the 4 points and it runs flawlessly the rest of the way through. If I don't do it this way my sled runs just like yours. Like crap.

Good luck and let me know if I can help ya out.

If you have time just pull up the TPS control on the boondocker web site and read the info. They explain it pretty well.

Thunder

M1000Mod162 · Dec 28, 2009

Arctic Thunder said:
I hear ya. But

What I have found is they sled runs great up to the point the exhaust valves open, and this is around 6800 depending on TPS, air temp, motor load and and a bunch of other crap. But the instant they open and it isn't ever at the same RPM the ECU is programed to dump in more fuel. When this happens the sled instantly goes rich. To the point of making, typically the mag side, cylinder drop out and have very low egt's all the way through. Mine would get to the point it would drop out from being so rich the only way I could clean it up was to back way out and start over and punch it through this rpm range.

Your right it is really rich when they open, but just before the PV's open it is just right. Or to damn rich for the rest of the range. The only way I have found around this is to use the Boondocker box and use the TPS control to adjust the fuel when the PV's open up.

So I agree you are to rich after that RPM range. I would bet money that this is the exact same time the PV's open and the ECU is calling for a lot more fuel.

What I found was I can add 4 points of fuel prior to the PV's opening (This is with a base fuel pressure of 49psi). The second they open I cut the 4 points and it runs flawlessly the rest of the way through. If I don't do it this way my sled runs just like yours. Like crap.

Good luck and let me know if I can help ya out.

If you have time just pull up the TPS control on the boondocker web site and read the info. They explain it pretty well.

Thunder

Ok But the only thing that leads me away from that is ive never had this problem before! Last year the sled ran flawlesly all year long(1200miles)it never had any problem like this and it also ran great for the first two rides this year then on the third time out it started doing this I havent changed anything from last year other than reniked cylinders and new pistons!

Thank you very much for your time and info This sounds like a really good tunning idea that i will be looking in to but i just think there is an outside problem thats suddenly brought this problem on

Arctic Thunder · Dec 28, 2009

M1000Mod162 said:
Ok But the only thing that leads me away from that is ive never had this problem before! Last year the sled ran flawlesly all year long(1200miles)it never had any problem like this and it also ran great for the first two rides this year then on the third time out it started doing this I havent changed anything from last year other than reniked cylinders and new pistons!

What year sled is it again?

Also did you get the 09 reflash done?

Thunder

M1000Mod162 · Dec 28, 2009

Arctic Thunder said:
What year sled is it again?

Also did you get the 09 reflash done?

Thunder

The sled is a 2007 m1000

No did not do reflash! I was afraid to mess up a perfectly good running sled.

Im down to the stator,injectors,and fuel pump for possible problems which I will be checking when I get time. I talked to bdx today and they said they have not had any problems with the relay for the servo on the valve delete so that kinda took that out.

WyoBoy1000 · Dec 28, 2009

check your plug wires for rubbing on the head and grounding out. Those egt numbers are way rich(if they are accurate). So if it ran good before and not now, as far as going rich there are two main things that can effect this(that is if nothing at all was done between running good and bad) either your stock exhaust temp sensor is starting to fail or the barometric tube on the ecu has moved, pinched or pluged.

Being that rich I doubt its a failer of anything else being week like injectors stator ect.. (replace plugs)

are you running the same fuel.

Help! M1000 bog at 6900 to 7400

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