What would it take to get you back on a Cat?

[MTsled3]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm bored and decided I'd like to hear what people think.

My question is mainly directed at those who have previously owned Cat sleds but have gone away from the brand, but even if you haven't had one, or currently have one, I'm curious on your thoughts as well. What would it take to get you to go snowcheck a new Cat next spring?

Personally, I'm planning to snowcheck for the first time next spring so i've been thinking a lot about what I'm going to get. I currently have an 800 Axys and the fiancee has an 850 Expert.

The new Doo would need to be a drastic improvement over the Gen 4 for me to consider it, and I don't think they changed enough to convince me to go back ( I used to have a T3 xm).

As for the Cat, I do really like the Alpha sleds, but to me it still falls just short of the Axys and now Matryx for handling and overall fun factor, especially comparing to the Khaos model. I know there are handling improvements such as elevate kits and similar things you can do, but I'm at the point where I just want to keep things simple and keep my sleds mostly stock and just ride them.

For me to snowcheck a new Cat next year, I think they'd need to do a good chunk of the following:

Lighten it up a bit, especially the front end. I feel like the intake could be simplified, and some re-engineering under the hood to centralize the mass more would be beneficial. Better skis wouldn't hurt either. Current ones aren't bad but there's room for improvement.

Narrow the body up a bit. Just slight body panel improvements can make a bigger difference than you think. Plus a more refined, updated look would be cool to see after 6 years of the same thing. With the new narrower clutch they released last year, I have a feeling the next generation sled will be a fair amount skinnier than the Ascender.

Improve the steering. My cranky shoulders are dead tired at the end of a day on a cat compared to a Polaris or Doo. It's better than the early days of the proclimb but I feel like the handlebars should have more swing to them also. Maybe I'm just used to the Polaris steering but I feel like the bars (not necessarily the skis) need to turn 25% further before that "slamming" feeling you get when you turn all the way. BTW I have no experience on elevate kits so if that improves the steering, I say go that route.

Some sort of a power bump. Slightly bigger 850cc-900cc motor would be my preference. Turbo would be cool. I don't need a ton more power but just a nice little bump up from the current 800. (Yeah I know my Axys 800 isn't any better, I wish it had more power too).

Better running boards. I like a stiffer feeling board like the BM Fabs or similar tube-style. Even the extruded cat accessory boards would be a good improvement.

Fancy gauge. Yeah, I know it's not necessary and you never see it and blah, blah, blah... but the 7s gauge on the new Polaris is extremely cool. First, I do watch my gauge a bit to make sure I'm hitting rpms and adjust my clutching setup. Second, being able to track your rides and see your riding buddies on the screen in real time is an awesome feature. And it just modernizes the feel of the sled.

Short(er) tunnel. Yeah I know it's been "bobbed" since 2009 but they can afford to go another 3 or 4 inches shorter.

3-4 year factory warranty. I don't think I'd take the gamble on a first-year model unless it had some decent warranty with it. If cat only does the 1 year, there's little chance I'll be a buyer.

That's all I can think of right now but I'm sure there's some more areas for improvement.

What do you guys think?

 

[jim]

I think the riders will list-out a bunch of things they absolutely want/need in a sled. But if the manufacturers actually include all the asks, the price is crazy ($20k+) and the same riders will never consider purchasing that sled due to cost. Basic stuff like weight...yeah, any manufacturer can delivery 200HP at 400 pounds...but it will require exotic, expensive materials that are not very durable and be very expensive. And how much $$$$ is baked into the sled for the extended warrantee stuff? I bet it's a bigger number than you think. If it was optional, and you could save $3k to not have a warrantee, I bet that would be a popular option, especially with guys who don't mind just fixing it themselves and avoiding the 2-4 weeks of downtime at the dealer to get the warrantee work done.

I still ride an 09 M8 w/ PG turbo. I don't go much and it is comparable to the newest stuff. And when I see used stuff with 1500 miles for $12k, no thanks. There is no value in it for me. The new sleds are costing waaay too much for minimal advancement in the past 10 years. Main thing that would motivate me is the newer narrow chassis design...but, to be honest, the only time I'd want the more narrow sled is for extreme situations that are pretty rare. And the M8 handle that stuff just fine.

Sledding is becoming a niche, high end market reserved for those with big bank accounts. Didn't used to be that way.

 

[MTsled3]

I think the riders will list-out a bunch of things they absolutely want/need in a sled. But if the manufacturers actually include all the asks, the price is crazy ($20k+) and the same riders will never consider purchasing that sled due to cost. Basic stuff like weight...yeah, any manufacturer can delivery 200HP at 400 pounds...but it will require exotic, expensive materials that are not very durable and be very expensive. And how much $$$$ is baked into the sled for the extended warrantee stuff? I bet it's a bigger number than you think. If it was optional, and you could save $3k to not have a warrantee, I bet that would be a popular option, especially with guys who don't mind just fixing it themselves and avoiding the 2-4 weeks of downtime at the dealer to get the warrantee work done.

I still ride an 09 M8 w/ PG turbo. I don't go much and it is comparable to the newest stuff. And when I see used stuff with 1500 miles for $12k, no thanks. There is no value in it for me. The new sleds are costing waaay too much for minimal advancement in the past 10 years. Main thing that would motivate me is the newer narrow chassis design...but, to be honest, the only time I'd want the more narrow sled is for extreme situations that are pretty rare. And the M8 handle that stuff just fine.

Sledding is becoming a niche, high end market reserved for those with big bank accounts. Didn't used to be that way.

I hear ya there, I've always been one to buy 2 or 3 year old sleds for half of their original msrp. However, I have been working hard towards one of those big bank accounts for a while now and things are starting to pay off. Yeah it sucks paying so much for a toy, but I'm gonna do it anyway since I finally can.

 

[Clark42]

I agree with pretty much everything you listed. I wish the twin rail was an option and the elevate came from the factory (like come on, every single black cats rider has an elevate kit - can the factory get a hint?). Some running board changes would be great along with the snowflap.

The engine configuration is an interesting one. Just the way it's all set up under the hood kind of requires a bulky pipe and weird intake. I really enjoy the plastics, I'm happy with them, especially compared to the proclimb

 

[IDspud]

Snow

 

[Clark42]

Snow

Still riding here

 

[IDspud]

90 and eating dust all day.
No drifts left on roads even at 10k.?

 

[Radar78]

I’m still on a Cat (‘16 LTD) and hoping to upgrade soon. Cats are all I’ve ever ridden. Obviously some improvements would be wonderful but the biggest reason I’m hesitant to stick with Cat is simply the fact that I’m concerned if they’re even gonna be around in a few years. I don’t think it’s a secret that they’re hurtin these days and not moving many sleds. I’d hate for Textron to quit producing sleds and then be stuck with a next to new sled that nobody wants to buy from me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tuneman]

It's hilarious that Yamaha's chassis sucked so bad that they went to Cat for that. Now Cat's chassis sucks so much that they should probably cut a deal with Polaris.

If you put a Cat engine and a Powerclaw track on a Polaris chassis and emblazoned it with Yamaha stickers, I'd get a speeding ticket from racing to the nearest dealer.

 

[1962Cat]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm bored and decided I'd like to hear what people think.

My question is mainly directed at those who have previously owned Cat sleds but have gone away from the brand, but even if you haven't had one, or currently have one, I'm curious on your thoughts as well. What would it take to get you to go snowcheck a new Cat next spring?

Personally, I'm planning to snowcheck for the first time next spring so i've been thinking a lot about what I'm going to get. I currently have an 800 Axys and the fiancee has an 850 Expert.

The new Doo would need to be a drastic improvement over the Gen 4 for me to consider it, and I don't think they changed enough to convince me to go back ( I used to have a T3 xm).

As for the Cat, I do really like the Alpha sleds, but to me it still falls just short of the Axys and now Matryx for handling and overall fun factor, especially comparing to the Khaos model. I know there are handling improvements such as elevate kits and similar things you can do, but I'm at the point where I just want to keep things simple and keep my sleds mostly stock and just ride them.

For me to snowcheck a new Cat next year, I think they'd need to do a good chunk of the following:

Lighten it up a bit, especially the front end. I feel like the intake could be simplified, and some re-engineering under the hood to centralize the mass more would be beneficial. Better skis wouldn't hurt either. Current ones aren't bad but there's room for improvement.

Narrow the body up a bit. Just slight body panel improvements can make a bigger difference than you think. Plus a more refined, updated look would be cool to see after 6 years of the same thing. With the new narrower clutch they released last year, I have a feeling the next generation sled will be a fair amount skinnier than the Ascender.

Improve the steering. My cranky shoulders are dead tired at the end of a day on a cat compared to a Polaris or Doo. It's better than the early days of the proclimb but I feel like the handlebars should have more swing to them also. Maybe I'm just used to the Polaris steering but I feel like the bars (not necessarily the skis) need to turn 25% further before that "slamming" feeling you get when you turn all the way. BTW I have no experience on elevate kits so if that improves the steering, I say go that route.

Some sort of a power bump. Slightly bigger 850cc-900cc motor would be my preference. Turbo would be cool. I don't need a ton more power but just a nice little bump up from the current 800. (Yeah I know my Axys 800 isn't any better, I wish it had more power too).

Better running boards. I like a stiffer feeling board like the BM Fabs or similar tube-style. Even the extruded cat accessory boards would be a good improvement.

Fancy gauge. Yeah, I know it's not necessary and you never see it and blah, blah, blah... but the 7s gauge on the new Polaris is extremely cool. First, I do watch my gauge a bit to make sure I'm hitting rpms and adjust my clutching setup. Second, being able to track your rides and see your riding buddies on the screen in real time is an awesome feature. And it just modernizes the feel of the sled.

Short(er) tunnel. Yeah I know it's been "bobbed" since 2009 but they can afford to go another 3 or 4 inches shorter.

3-4 year factory warranty. I don't think I'd take the gamble on a first-year model unless it had some decent warranty with it. If cat only does the 1 year, there's little chance I'll be a buyer.

That's all I can think of right now but I'm sure there's some more areas for improvement.

What do you guys think?

I did order a 2023 Hardcore. I bought a 2021 Blast M. I have a 2018 Ski-Doo I love. Had lots of new cats in 90's -2006. Hoping it gets here, by November.

 

[Clark42]

I’m still on a Cat (‘16 LTD) and hoping to upgrade soon. Cats are all I’ve ever ridden. Obviously some improvements would be wonderful but the biggest reason I’m hesitant to stick with Cat is simply the fact that I’m concerned if they’re even gonna be around in a few years. I don’t think it’s a secret that they’re hurtin these days and not moving many sleds. I’d hate for Textron to quit producing sleds and then be stuck with a next to new sled that nobody wants to buy from me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a 16 and a 21 right now, the difference is really notable. It's an awesome upgrade.

Now Cat's chassis sucks

Have you actually ridden one? The cat set up is definitely no slouch. It easily stacks up to anyone else's

 

[sno*jet]

didnt they come out with a fancy gauge for 23? im not that bored to go look
they need to taper the end of the tunnel like the slash.
They still have the best looking sled from a distance imo. dont like the frog-doo but if nothing changed by next spring it probably the one id consider. not sure those 850s last like their 800 did tho? i like motors that go 3000 miles, new top end and another 3000 without fail.

 

[Old & slow]

I’m still on a Cat (‘16 LTD) and hoping to upgrade soon. Cats are all I’ve ever ridden. Obviously some improvements would be wonderful but the biggest reason I’m hesitant to stick with Cat is simply the fact that I’m concerned if they’re even gonna be around in a few years. I don’t think it’s a secret that they’re hurtin these days and not moving many sleds. I’d hate for Textron to quit producing sleds and then be stuck with a next to new sled that nobody wants to buy from me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every model I looked at on A/C site is sold out. They may not be as hurtin as everyone thinks?

 

[Radar78]

Every model I looked at on A/C site is sold out. They may not be as hurtin as everyone thinks?

Well at home here on the flatlands of Saskatchewan Canada I see a few kicking around but mostly older models. My mountain destinations of British Columbia and Wyoming are pretty much Cat free. Almost non existent. But hey, like I said, I’m a Cat guy. So I hope you’re right!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1962Cat]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I'm bored and decided I'd like to hear what people think.

My question is mainly directed at those who have previously owned Cat sleds but have gone away from the brand, but even if you haven't had one, or currently have one, I'm curious on your thoughts as well. What would it take to get you to go snowcheck a new Cat next spring?

Personally, I'm planning to snowcheck for the first time next spring so i've been thinking a lot about what I'm going to get. I currently have an 800 Axys and the fiancee has an 850 Expert.

The new Doo would need to be a drastic improvement over the Gen 4 for me to consider it, and I don't think they changed enough to convince me to go back ( I used to have a T3 xm).

As for the Cat, I do really like the Alpha sleds, but to me it still falls just short of the Axys and now Matryx for handling and overall fun factor, especially comparing to the Khaos model. I know there are handling improvements such as elevate kits and similar things you can do, but I'm at the point where I just want to keep things simple and keep my sleds mostly stock and just ride them.

For me to snowcheck a new Cat next year, I think they'd need to do a good chunk of the following:

Lighten it up a bit, especially the front end. I feel like the intake could be simplified, and some re-engineering under the hood to centralize the mass more would be beneficial. Better skis wouldn't hurt either. Current ones aren't bad but there's room for improvement.

Narrow the body up a bit. Just slight body panel improvements can make a bigger difference than you think. Plus a more refined, updated look would be cool to see after 6 years of the same thing. With the new narrower clutch they released last year, I have a feeling the next generation sled will be a fair amount skinnier than the Ascender.

Improve the steering. My cranky shoulders are dead tired at the end of a day on a cat compared to a Polaris or Doo. It's better than the early days of the proclimb but I feel like the handlebars should have more swing to them also. Maybe I'm just used to the Polaris steering but I feel like the bars (not necessarily the skis) need to turn 25% further before that "slamming" feeling you get when you turn all the way. BTW I have no experience on elevate kits so if that improves the steering, I say go that route.

Some sort of a power bump. Slightly bigger 850cc-900cc motor would be my preference. Turbo would be cool. I don't need a ton more power but just a nice little bump up from the current 800. (Yeah I know my Axys 800 isn't any better, I wish it had more power too).

Better running boards. I like a stiffer feeling board like the BM Fabs or similar tube-style. Even the extruded cat accessory boards would be a good improvement.

Fancy gauge. Yeah, I know it's not necessary and you never see it and blah, blah, blah... but the 7s gauge on the new Polaris is extremely cool. First, I do watch my gauge a bit to make sure I'm hitting rpms and adjust my clutching setup. Second, being able to track your rides and see your riding buddies on the screen in real time is an awesome feature. And it just modernizes the feel of the sled.

Short(er) tunnel. Yeah I know it's been "bobbed" since 2009 but they can afford to go another 3 or 4 inches shorter.

3-4 year factory warranty. I don't think I'd take the gamble on a first-year model unless it had some decent warranty with it. If cat only does the 1 year, there's little chance I'll be a buyer.

That's all I can think of right now but I'm sure there's some more areas for improvement.

What do you guys think?

I ordered a 2023 Hardcore, because the 800 has proved to be reliable. I ride The mountains Togwotee pass in Wyoming. Where I have lived for the past 14 years. I see everything on the mountain lots of OEM testing. Lots of rentals. I try yo buy machines that are reliable.

 

[IDspud]

Not sure where you ride WY but they’re in every lot I’ve been, not just my trailer full.

 

[madmax]

Every model I looked at on A/C site is sold out. They may not be as hurtin as everyone thinks?

That’s because they are snow check only this year. If you wanted a cat, you had to snow check or find one that got checked and backed out of.
Cat could easily do a few things to get people to buy. A shorter tunnel would be super easy. They have already had the shortest tunnel of any sled for many years now.
They could easily put on the factory machined or tube boards for a huge improvement.

If they could pull 10-15 more hp out of a 850 or 900 that would really excite buyers.
A belt drive to free up some drivetrain HP and lose 6-8lbs would be huge as well.
Even just the boards, shorter tunnel and belt drive would be a big gain.

 

[Teth-Air]

This would do it:

 

[Coldfinger]

A few things about that cat model are concerning.

The handlebars are severely bent.
A suspension rail is severely bent.
The headlights are covered.

You may get lucky and get a few rides in before it needs maintenance, but once the maintenance bills start coming in it will become quickly evident that this model is out of most peoples ability to keep it running without breaking the bank or risk it being stolen if it isn’t being maintained.

But, I could be wrong.

This would do it:

View attachment 389875

 

[Old & slow]

That’s because they are snow check only this year. If you wanted a cat, you had to snow check or find one that got checked and backed out of.
Cat could easily do a few things to get people to buy. A shorter tunnel would be super easy. They have already had the shortest tunnel of any sled for many years now.
They could easily put on the factory machined or tube boards for a huge improvement.

If they could pull 10-15 more hp out of a 850 or 900 that would really excite buyers.
A belt drive to free up some drivetrain HP and lose 6-8lbs would be huge as well.
Even just the boards, shorter tunnel and belt drive would be a big gain.

I previous point was they have sold everything they can produce and may not be as cash strapped as some believe. They definitely need a new chassis with the improvements previously mentioned. From what I have seen / heard the new chassis is under development and will be available soon.