Purpose built OEM? Is there a market? What is realistic?

[bendn]

So I started a thread on cvt vs gearbox and got a lot of good but mix feed back. Now I’m more curious what this will turn up.

Is there a market for Polaris or Doo or cat to make a purpose built?and don’t say cats got one....

Seeing a lot of Polaris in the Aro kit I’m just waiting to see what they do with the part of the machine they don’t sell right?

If they built a fresh outa the box single skier what would it be!? Be realistic....please no titanium 1000cc space crafts with nitrous.

Engine size?
Cvt? Gearbox? #if gears?
Copartner power plant? (KTM/Husky?)
Track size and width?
Ski property’s?
Pegs or running boards?
Front suspension 2 tubes? 3 tubes? Coils?
Rear? Single beam? Dual rail?
Enclosed motor sled style? Or still st dirt bike frame?
What else would make it unique?

There has to be some downsides to a conversion. It’s not a perfect mix although we modify our bikes with everything possible to make the best snowbikes when you get down to the drawings, geometry’s could be improved when starting on a fresh platform.

Or is there a market at all? Is the idea of snowbiking the fact that it’s a conversion.The different combination of tracks, bikes, suspensions that are available are endless.

Do we all get the true year round experience switching back and fourth? I know a lot of my customers have had snowbikes that haven’t rode a single mile on the tires but at the same time I typically convert my bikes back winter to summer.

With the racing circuits now maybe it’s establised that it’s got be stock front chassis?

Lots to think about thanks for reading.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

I think it would be a tough-sell, trying to convince any of the major mfgr's to spend any $$$ in designing a purpose built snowbike. It is just that the bikes already exist for which simple fit-kits can be added to bolt-and-go on the snow.

There isn't much I can say I want from my bike and snowbike kit at all. I know I love how my bike runs on the dirt and the street-as I have a dual-sport and now triple-sport, and with the DTS 129 kit, it works perfectly on the snow. If I had to buy my bike and Camso kit again, from brand new, with no other options but the bike and kit, I'd be at $14,800.

As soon as there snow is out, the kit is coming right off my bike and I'll be commuting back and forth to work on it and riding it on the dirt every chance I get. That much I do know.

 

[eric82930]

I don't have time to get into details but even just a 70hp with gearbox would be exponentially better and probably 20 lbs lighter than a converted 450 with way better handling and mass centralization. And there is definatly a market everyone who owns a sled is proof of that. If they could convert their side by side to a sled they wouldn't because the performance would suck compared to a purpose built skidoo.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

I will bet that the conversion rate from snowmobile riders to snowbike riders will be very low.

It is like all those ATV riders that won't or don't ride dirtbikes as they enjoy ATV's and want nothing to do with dirtbikes. Same with snowmobiles. People want to press and go and not have to do much work to get it all done.

Dirtbikers and snowbikers are the top of the powersports food chain.

 

[Hawkster]

Maybe it's more about separating a kit from a turn key . Some that converted to the kits jumped in with both feet and now own two machines . The sport started out as a poor man's snowbike who would of thought a dirt biker was ever willing to Shell out the coin that is being put into these kits ? Amazing what one will do for the fun factor .
The new mountain machines are so close to being able to do what a one ski does that they are even vocally comparing them to a bike . It might actually be a very simple transition for them but as far as these kits have come it's hard to imagine looking back some day and saying it was just a fad .
I'm waiting for the next evolution , it's been done before and will be done again when those that can make it happen will think it's time .

 

[bendn]

Maybe it's more about separating a kit from a turn key . Some that converted to the kits jumped in with both feet and now own two machines . The sport started out as a poor man's snowbike who would of thought a dirt biker was ever willing to Shell out the coin that is being put into these kits ? Amazing what one will do for the fun factor .
The new mountain machines are so close to being able to do what a one ski does that they are even vocally comparing them to a bike . It might actually be a very simple transition for them but as far as these kits have come it's hard to imagine looking back some day and saying it was just a fad .
I'm waiting for the next evolution , it's been done before and will be done again when those that can make it happen will think it's time .

Highly agree. Polaris has to be doing something... Its one thing to say its why would they wouldn't build something because why would they everyone else is already doing it. They want more money. They want everything you own to be their brand... We will se another better "snowhawk" soon in my opinion.
3speed gear box with slipper clutch?
600 single cylinder 4 stroke?
no chain to chain conversion with extra sprockets. chain to drive shaft or belt to drive shaft?

 

[Timberview01]

I, for one, am not interested in a full-time, purpose built snow bike. A big part of my initial interest was that I could take my 5 month-a-year toy and make it into a 10 month-a-year toy instead of having a $10K sled and a $9K bike which just take up space half the year.

Understandably, a lot of folks are doing some major modifications to their rides to make them the best they can be. Those modifications are not necessarily fun to un-do in the spring to go back to tires.

To each their own...

 

[RMK935VA]

Purpose built snowbike with a rigid tunnel like a sled (no swing arm pivot), 100 to 120 horsepower EFI two stroke twin, CVT with a jackshaft to a belt final drive, grip heaters, lights, good footpegs, decent seat, etc., etc. I would buy one. I don't put the wheels on my snowbike anyway. The comment above about the current mountain sleds being close to a snowbike is ludicrous IMHO. I had a 16 Axys. Great sled but the bike can go places with ease that the sled couldn't go easily or often at all. The bike is much easier on the body too. Less work, less stress (no yard sales). I say to Polaris or someone: Build it and they will buy it!

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

built on purpose

Jason is just about done with his built on purpose snow bike.

Yam yz 250 front frame and forks, ski doo 700 twin if I recall, lots of ski doo parts...............so blue skidoo, 136 track. Wide as a truck with the clutch's sticking out, been done before, engine way back, not sure how that will work, wheeelie city maybe.

Should be a hoot to fool with.

When we have a snowbike that really works it will be a bigger two stroke twin with 8 speed air shift and 50 lbs lighter than what we ride, forks will have to go, single arm out front likely cheaper, lighter, just a tall spindle is all that necessary.

Snow hawk was on the right track, they just had snow mobile minds, not enough time or money or evolution for those guys. Their first attemp was great, it just didn't evolve.

Just got to make a purpose built feel like a bike, its the bikers that have bought into this sport, some of us are converted snowmobilers, but looking around, tons of dirt bike guys that are a little naive about snow but thrilled to have a winter activity.

Likely the only company to have enough chit together to make it happen is Ski Doo. CAT is now a corporate step child on tight budget,, Polaris is buried in dirt vehicles, Yam makes pianos,
KYMCO ?

 

[eric82930]

I wouldn't buy one with a cvt if I had a choice. But either way I predict bike conversions will someday be mostly obsolete. To me a truly good snowbike has too much power to be a good trail bike. The ktm 350 is the only bike in the middle that can do both pretty well. My dirt bike is a 150 2 stroke. I have two dedicated snow bikes both with frame mods so they will never see dirt use again.

 

[RMK935VA]

I wouldn't buy one with a cvt if I had a choice. But either way I predict bike conversions will someday be mostly obsolete. To me a truly good snowbike has too much power to be a good trail bike. The ktm 350 is the only bike in the middle that can do both pretty well. My dirt bike is a 150 2 stroke. I have two dedicated snow bikes both with frame mods so they will never see dirt use again.

Exactly the problem. My snowbike is a KTM 450 SXF converted to a 520. Great for snow but too much for dirt riding. I am 65 and I started riding dirt bikes at 11. However, I want nothing to do with putting the wheels on the 520. I am pretty sure my skill set cannot handle a dirt bike with 70 horsepower and I am sure that my body cannot. I wish it had more power as a snowbike though. Nevertheless, it is a total blast to ride in the snow. A purpose built OEM snowbike will happen even if I might be too dang old before it does.

 

[powdermuncher]

The whole toy for summer and winter was just a marketing ploy to get people into snow-biking.

All my friends have dedicated snow and summer bikes except for one who is 11 and his dad both on YZ250 fx first year giving snow bikes a go. And that is fine for getting people into the sport.

Anyone else has more invested in there snow bikes than any of the new top of the line sleds--and did I say they also have dedicated summer bikes.

So now if you give us a dedicated snow bike at around 350 pounds with a ski doo 850 in it I will easily put down the same cash as I did on my 850. A proper engineered set up will both kick Sled and Snowlike butt.
Now if that would be the case you think sliders would look at it to --You bet they would. My 2 cents worth.

 

[Hawkster]

So would this consider as a utilitarian snow bike? 2017 , choice of 600 or an 800 .

baby steps

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

I'm also one that would NOT buy a dedicated snowbike and love the power of my 478cc 4S motor for both the dirt, street and snow.

While I am looking forward to riding the snow all winter, I also look forward to converting the bike back to the dirt/stret and riding till next winter comes.

The conversion gives me the time to grease and check everything over and spending the time on it is both therapy and my workout. I have no legitimate complaint with how the DTS 129 kit is working on my bike at all.

 

[jrlastofthebreed]

I switch my bike back and forth simply because i can't afford a 2nd bike. but i don't like the power on dirt. Its just to much.

Build a 300 lb. 90-110 hp bike. Im not a 2 stroke guy but that would probably be best. Chain or belt directly to the driveshaft. That would eliminate the Tss unless they attached the engine to the skid? Has to have electric start. Reverse would be cool but doubt it would be useful. Wider softer seat. Better pegs or boards but guards to protect your legs. Id buy one.

 

[chumbilly1]

I will bet that the conversion rate from snowmobile riders to snowbike riders will be very low.

It is like all those ATV riders that won't or don't ride dirtbikes as they enjoy ATV's and want nothing to do with dirtbikes. Same with snowmobiles. People want to press and go and not have to do much work to get it all done.

Dirtbikers and snowbikers are the top of the powersports food chain.

I personally feel that the snowbiking is a lower impact less exerting sport than mtn snowmobiling. I love it! But its not fair to say that every sled fanatic is a sitdown trail blazer. Just not the case. I like to push at every sport I play, and I ride at an expert level when I compete, and my body feels way better after i get off my Yeti than my summit.

 

[GnarBike]

Check out gnarbike.net. We have a hundred horse two stroke coming soon. Weighs 270lbs ish

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I switch my bike back and forth simply because i can't afford a 2nd bike. but i don't like the power on dirt. Its just to much.

Build a 300 lb. 90-110 hp bike. Im not a 2 stroke guy but that would probably be best. Chain or belt directly to the driveshaft. That would eliminate the Tss unless they attached the engine to the skid? Has to have electric start. Reverse would be cool but doubt it would be useful. Wider softer seat. Better pegs or boards but guards to protect your legs. Id buy one.

Reverse would be amazing for solo loading and unloading in trailers.

I have a couple bikes and a sled so the conversion back and forth is pointless.

Electric start is a must.

Light weight and low rotating mass is the key to fun.

 

[Ben 500RR-S]

I personally feel that the snowbiking is a lower impact less exerting sport than mtn snowmobiling. I love it! But its not fair to say that every sled fanatic is a sitdown trail blazer. Just not the case. I like to push at every sport I play, and I ride at an expert level when I compete, and my body feels way better after i get off my Yeti than my summit.

My bad, sorry. I retract my earlier statement and it sure was not fair to paint all snowmobilers with such a broad-brush. Mountain riders/powder riders are at the apex of the sport compared to the vast majority of groomed trail riders, no doubt about that. I overgeneralized as no one wants to be lumped in with ATV riders-ha!

In the snowmobiling circles I had/have been traveling in, there are about NO dirtbike riders and none have crossed over or have any plans on getting onto a snowbike. It is easy for us, who know how to ride a dirtbike/mx bike, to get on a snowbike and go, but not those who's only bike experience is to dawdle along on a Harley Davidson on a summer day/night.

 

[capulin overdrive]

Starting to appear the only way it's going to happen, is if a startup company does it first and has success. Then an OEM will buy them up.