Future of education?

[JSCC]

Ruffy, I didn't look at your links yet. When I have time to sit down and watch them, I will. And i will respond to them.







Why do I HAVE to disprove YOUR statemtns? YOU said them. It must be your teachers fault that you can't defend your own statements.
You're NOT open minded at all. You think ALL TEACHERS are the problem. Yeah, that's a blanket open minded statement there.
But it's probably your teacher's fault that you aren't open minded enough to understand it.


Calm down and take a breath. While I can see you are defending your trade you are putting many words in my mouth. Not all teachers are the problem, the problem lies in no accountability. We all have our issues to deal with in our jobs, teachers are no different and should still be held to some standard.

 

[ruffryder]

A mother that has taught my entire life and is still a high school teacher.....

She should have taught you statistics....

 

[ruffryder]

Prove might have not been the appropriate word but you are really just arguing semantics and not adding anything to the conversation.

Should have taught you semantics as well... lol, along with some fallacies of arguments as well as some logic (ex, Boolean and the like)

 

[JSCC]

So here ya go....For one, teachers and principals don't write curriculum or school policy. That is set by the State or local Consortium. Teachers must follow State defined education standards and teachers are subject to annual or bi-annual review by administrators.

What accountability are you referring to when you say "teachers have NO accountability"?
Accountability for there performance.

Most of the profession is bound by constraints set WAY outside of the Teacher's reach.
Go get permission, if you can, to sit in on an IEP and find out what can and cannot be done for a special-needs student or someone with learning difficulties. Your eyes just might be opened a tremendous amount. Teachers don't decide what course of action to take on that student. State laws and the parents make the decision. The staff can only inmplement a plan that is adopted based on what the state mandates they do, and finally, with consent of the parents. And it's the TEACHER's fault?
I never said everything was the teachers fault, again you are placing words in my mouth. My mother and sister have both taught special needs so I understand the issues facing special needs. This whole thread is about being the best educators in the world. Unfortunately that rules out special needs children.

Now go throw parents into the mix, and MOST of the time it goes pretty well. But then again, you have those parents who admit right there they with-hold food, lock their kid in the closet, "gave him an *** beating" because he hid his homework in the barn or don't send them to school so the bruises go away first. I had a kid this year miss 55.5 days of school before the dad finally withdrew him. And that problem is caused by the TEACHERS?


EVERY KID is different. EVERY ONE. I don't have a class of 25. I could have 150 kids come and go through my room every day. When they come into my room today I have no idea if they got breakfast, didn't do their homework, were yelled at, fell and skinned their knee, went to bed without dinner, smoked dope, watched p0rn, listed to their parents fight (or worse), had their cat die, are feeling suicidal...and the list goes ON. I could have no idea what kind of baggage their life is dragging along today and how it affects their ability or willingness to learn. AND THAT'S THE TEACHER'S PROBLEM?
Again putting words in my mouth.

Sure, there are things that the field of education could do better. No doubt. BUT, there is a VERY LARGE degredation in our society. Drugs, alcohol, poor work ethic, lack of personal accountability, the crap they see on TV, poor parenting skills, helicopter parents or parents who neglect (both ends of the spectrum) or even abuse are not helping our children.

Who saw Dealiest Catch last night when the Cornelia Marie came into port and Jake Harris slipped off the boat to flee to the airport before the cops could catch him? I'm sure that's the fault of all of his teachers.
I am starting to think this debate is not worth it....

Naturally, as most people want to find the easy way out...and mostly, parents want our schools to help our kids perform better. However, parents are the first ones to complain about the amound of work their child brings home at night.

It all starts at home...parental involvement.

With a seat of the pants feel here (from 13 years experience)...Starting at a YOUNG age and following through until middle school or even high school, parents that are involved in their child's education, who sit down at night with them, implementing a positive, proactive and productive approach to overseeing their child's homework at night...those children achieve far better.
As a parent, when you turn a kid loose and expect him to get his homework done on his own without any oversight...that kid is likely not to perform as well. And I might even be understating that considerably.

If you have a problem with what your kids are being taught, go to the principal. Schedule a meeting. Ask to see the District curriculum guide. Have that administrator explain how the state standards are being met by this curriculum. I'm sure you'll find that the teacher is doing what they can and what they are supposed to. I'm sure you'll find that it's not the teachers, as a whole, who are the problem with the field of education like you stated.
Now you are actually getting somewhere. I have done this and can guarantee you that no parent is going to be able to change what one teacher does! The only action a parent has against a bad teacher is to pull them from there class or if you know before hand ask your child enter another teachers class if available the prior year. We have done this and know first hand how it works.
My room is open before class begins. Students come in for help.
I have a duty free lunch...I give up my duty free lunch EVERY DAY for two reasons...holding students accountable for their behavior or to help students who need extra help.

I have students in my room an hour longer that I need to after school each day.

You and I don't live in the same town and we don't know each other's education system....but for you to say TEACHERS are the root of all the problems....spend some time getting to know them and their job a little more before you say that.

I started typing this 3 hours ago...but I've been busy with other important stuff...and I could come up with a LOT more strong examples and things to say in response to you, but I'm busy right now. I am assessing a bunch of 11 year old's grasp on the Literary Elements of a novel we just finished.

I appreciate your input. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what teachers go though since I did live with one. I do know my kids have had a few exceptional teachers, exceptional! They have also had some piss poor ones and those are who I write about. Who holds those accountable? What can be done to change them? If we want better education we need better educators.

 

[JSCC]

Should have taught you semantics as well... lol, along with some fallacies of arguments as well as some logic (ex, Boolean and the like)

Still you have nothing, and now move to personal attacks to back your arguments. Nice.

 

[JSCC]

She should have taught you statistics....

Statistics of what? That more private schools are popping up over the nation for many reasons including better teachers? Or the fact that very few teachers loose there position for lack of performance?

 

[JSCC]

Chew on this for a moment.
http://www.teachersunionexposed.com/protecting.cfm

 

[ruffryder]

blah 2

 

[ruffryder]

blah

 

[ruffryder]

So lets sum this all up.

JSCC thinks that if there were more accountability, then the school system would be great.

No one is arguing that we do not need any increased amount of accountability, and I bet most would AGREE that making it easier to fire a poor performing teacher would be a benefit. Though, there are many issues to defining what "poor performing" actually means in specific criterion terms.

So besides this issue, what else is there? Does accountability solve everything? NO. Does simply throwing money at the situation solve everything? NO. Does simply hiring more teachers to decrease the teacher to student ratio solve everything? NO.

So still, has anyone watched the fricken movie? I feel like I am at a book club meeting and am the only one that read the book..lol

 

[JSCC]

Statistics.. to help show that one data point (your mother) might not equate what occurs in all schools. Something it seems that you are saying.

I am sure not all schools are alike. Nor are all teachers. I am sure I could have used better words to describe that. My lack of education must be showing.

 

[2Thetopp]

Ruffy, thanks for the link, this concept is exactly what we need, we know what we have now isn't working, that's why I took my son out of public schools. I never thought that technology would actually humanize the classroom, but i can see endless possibilities, and it looks like it's something that would work for most kids to their advantage. The analogy to the 80% bike rider really put things into perspective, the whole grading you with a stamp "c" now here's a unicyle open my eyes to the reality of our "one size fits all school system" doesn't work. Everyone should benifit from this type of learning, students, teachers, and parents.

 

[skidoorulz]

JSCC ever stop and wonder why those private schools that are popping up are so succesful? Maybe it is because parents who are involved in their kids education want to get away from the crap that goes on in public school because of the kids whose parents just do not give a dam. Also ever wonder why those private schools have as you say good teachers? It is because they are leaving public schools and going to private schools to teach because they know that the parents care and will truly be involved in their child's education plus there would be a lot less distractions due to policies and rules that are in place that cannot be put into place at public schools because of cry baby parents. ! more thing to think about. So many think the voucher system would be so great. That would just make it so anyone including the I do not give a dammers would be able to attend theses so called great private schools and then I think you would see a great deterioration of those also. Your mom must be one of those teachers that should not have been allowed to teach since you have such a high regard for her.

 

[Scott]

I think the problem with education is the teachers teaching it. Many are not qualified or held to a high enough standard to actually be teaching what they teach. Put a kid through a school with a teacher that has only been taught by another teacher that has no real life experience but has been taught by another teacher that had four years of graduate school....if that made any sense. Start holding teachers accountable and make them have some real world experience in what they teach.
I did not watch your movie. Short attention span cause of my lack of education....

So says you. And what do you propose?

Ruff yes you have a point of lower education high school on down. But are we not talking about higher education and having the best schooling in the world?
Teachers have almost ZERO accountability. Nothing like a teacher that is inadequate for their job. Yet every time any amount of accountability is placed on them they cry foul and run to their union reps.
I grew up with a mother as a teacher. Love her dearly but ignorance is ignorance no matter how you want to dress it up. Teachers need to be held to a higher standard if you want kids to learn more.
And I might add I am a father of three and see what some of these teachers teach my kids. Some are excellent in their fields, some are not. Who is holding them accountable?

If we are talking about higher ed...I don't think it's too broken. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of international students come to the US every year.

Ruffy, I didn't look at your links yet. When I have time to sit down and watch them, I will. And i will respond to them.


Why do I HAVE to disprove YOUR statemtns? YOU said them. It must be your teachers fault that you can't defend your own statements.
You're NOT open minded at all. You think ALL TEACHERS are the problem. Yeah, that's a blanket open minded statement there.
But it's probably your teacher's fault that you aren't open minded enough to understand it.

Calm down and take a breath. While I can see you are defending your trade you are putting many words in my mouth. Not all teachers are the problem, the problem lies in no accountability. We all have our issues to deal with in our jobs, teachers are no different and should still be held to some standard.

You keep sayin that.....apparently teaching certificates are drawn up with crayons and passed out at the Conoco station.

JSCC ever stop and wonder why those private schools that are popping up are so succesful? Maybe it is because parents who are involved in their kids education want to get away from the crap that goes on in public school because of the kids whose parents just do not give a dam. Also ever wonder why those private schools have as you say good teachers? It is because they are leaving public schools and going to private schools to teach because they know that the parents care and will truly be involved in their child's education plus there would be a lot less distractions due to policies and rules that are in place that cannot be put into place at public schools because of cry baby parents. ! more thing to think about. So many think the voucher system would be so great. That would just make it so anyone including the I do not give a dammers would be able to attend theses so called great private schools and then I think you would see a great deterioration of those also. Your mom must be one of those teachers that should not have been allowed to teach since you have such a high regard for her.

That's what I was starting to think too. Maybe SHE was educated too long ago.

 

[Scott]

Ruffy....I really like the idea of Youtubing a lecture or presentation...and flipping the lesson and the homework. (at the 6:45 mark). Interesting. Unconventional. Outside the box. Modern.

Make that the homework and do the practice problems or assignment in the classrom.

I'm still watching....I'll check back in later.

 

[JSCC]

JSCC ever stop and wonder why those private schools that are popping up are so succesful? Maybe it is because parents who are involved in their kids education want to get away from the crap that goes on in public school because of the kids whose parents just do not give a dam. Also ever wonder why those private schools have as you say good teachers? It is because they are leaving public schools and going to private schools to teach because they know that the parents care and will truly be involved in their child's education plus there would be a lot less distractions due to policies and rules that are in place that cannot be put into place at public schools because of cry baby parents. ! more thing to think about. So many think the voucher system would be so great. That would just make it so anyone including the I do not give a dammers would be able to attend theses so called great private schools and then I think you would see a great deterioration of those also. Your mom must be one of those teachers that should not have been allowed to teach since you have such a high regard for her.

I am sure some of your points are very true and accurate. But it's pure speculation.
As for my Mother, I have the highest regard for her and her profession. It still dont change the fact that many in her profession are not adequate for there job.

 

[ruffryder]

It still dont change the fact that many in her profession are not adequate for there job.

I don't think there is anyone that is disagreeing with you on that point. Do you think that alone will solve all the problems with education?

skidoorulz, you bring up an interesting and very good point that sometimes private schools look better due to allowing a change in demographics. Though, I doubt anyone will say that they don't offer a better education, they do.

 

[Scott]

I am sure some of your points are very true and accurate. But it's pure speculation.
As for my Mother, I have the highest regard for her and her profession. It still dont change the fact that many in her profession are not adequate for there job.

I would hope so...but it doesn't come across that way.

I think you should take this thread and show it to both the teachers you liked and disliked...let them read it and have a nice conversation with them about your feelings.

I don't think there is anyone that is disagreeing with you on that point. Do you think that alone will solve all the problems with education?

skidoorulz, you bring up an interesting and very good point that sometimes private schools look better due to allowing a change in demographics. Though, I doubt anyone will say that they don't offer a better education, they do.

I know that there are many variables that play into this...as touched on above. I'd be curious to see a good study on this one.

 

[JSCC]

I don't think there is anyone that is disagreeing with you on that point. Do you think that alone will solve all the problems with education?

skidoorulz, you bring up an interesting and very good point that sometimes private schools look better due to allowing a change in demographics. Though, I doubt anyone will say that they don't offer a better education, they do.

No not all. It is however one of the main things I think we need to work on.
No one has mentioned any other ideas since they have been so wrapped up in attacking mine. Therefore we have used the entire thread debating my thoughts instead of talking different ideas.
I think we need to press our kids more on both math and science. However my daughter was in pre algebra this year in 7th grade. The same thing I was taught in 7th grade. Twenty years later we have not changed anything about how or when we are taught things.

 

[JSCC]

I would hope so...but it doesn't come across that way.

I think you should take this thread and show it to both the teachers you liked and disliked...let them read it and have a nice conversation with them about your feelings.

Understood. I am not good at expressing my thoughts through words so I stumble through it.
I am sure the teachers that have not done well by my kids are aware of it.


I know that there are many variables that play into this...as touched on above. I'd be curious to see a good study on this one.

How do you think we should change education for the better?