i think under 400lbs and over 160hp and durable would be revolutionary if it was a well functioning sled. light weight and high horsepower works well for the trail too.
Arctic Cat "Catalyst" (All I am allowed to share)
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
S
Absolutely, and especially if they made it half the weight as well!!
If they want more people to get into the sport it needs to be more affordable. If you have a family and you’re spending 25k cad on a new sled that’s a hard thing to justify.
They are pricing people out of the market.
They are pricing people out of the market.
P
my thoughts exactly.
i do like the most of what i can see though.... except for this- the fact that running board angle doesn't match the bumper and it's body line... it's visually off.
plus, i've just never liked the angle of the cat running boards. too steep for my liking (unless pulling up a steep hill). i would like it more if they raised the front end of the boards.
ABSOLUTELY!
That would in fact REVOLUTIONIZE this sport by bringing in a TON MORE PEOPLE that are just PRICED OUT OF IT right now.
Imagine if you could pick up a solid sled for the price of a Dirt Bike.
I agree, the problem is a cap price is usually driven by failure to sell capacity. Since their is both a shortage of goods and an abundance of people willing to buy every current model year every season, that trend won't go down in my eyes anyways..... but it sure would be a revolutionary concept for sure.
R
Uh have you priced a new dirt bike lately?
Would a supercharged 600 have enough power to compete? How would it compare to a 850N/A or 900N/A? Would it be efficient? Would it be compliant? Would it be heavier or lighter?
i would be interested in a turbo or supercharged 600 IF it was close in weight to an 800. would be lighter than turbo 800 or 850 if the turbo was smaller and engine was lighter. if it had 140 or 150hp at elevation would be sweet, but at the same time the other brands have turbo 850's so i dont see anyone jumping ship to come buy a smaller turbo or supercharged sled. supercharger must be lighter than a turbo since no cast iron exhaust housing so maybe weight could be the same with smooth linear boost with no lag and 800 power levels at all elevations. I think i would snowcheck one of those.
what is the hp of this new? 600? I read it has a different crank and injection and maybe pistons? 100cc used to only mean 10ish hp back in the day. like 98 polaris 600 vs. 700, all identical just different piston size. Never understood why the 600s today are not cranking 140 if the 800s are doing over 160.
140 hp 600 would be fine for me.
140 hp 600 would be fine for me.
I think the price point would be difficult for a turbo or especially a supercharged 600. It would probably realistically compete with NA 850/900s at elevation, but it would still likely cost more than both. In stock form I think you'd also lose the weight advantage that this new chassis may have just gained over the competition.
i agree, most people wouldnt buy it when you can buy an 850/900 or turbo 850.
Supertrax did a bit more sharing and "speculating" without giving out too many hard numbers. A 50lb weight loss would be welcomed! Anti-slosh fuel tank sounds cool.
https://www.supertraxmag.com/features/more-info-and-opinion-on-cats-catalyst/
https://www.supertraxmag.com/features/more-info-and-opinion-on-cats-catalyst/
MORE INFO AND OPINION ON CAT'S CATALYST - Supertrax Online
Let's get in front of some of the more important details surrounding the Arctic Cat Catalyst platform. There's lots new. Some things are subtle and others are
www.supertraxmag.com
Belt Drive
Just for the record (because we respect the techo-knowledge of our readers and viewers), when we say belt drive we mean the final drive from the jack shaft to the drive axle. The CVT belt is in its traditional location. The move to belt drive is smart. The entire Catalyst project had lightness as one of its foundational tenets. Ditching the chaincase, cover, chain, tensioner and other assorted fasteners, not to mention the need to dump the chain oil when changing tracks, is quite simply, a huge win. Snowmobilers will remember Polaris has used a similar belt drive on specific RMK models.
Light Weight
The Catalyst has gone through a major dietary process and it extended to every piece of the sled. The belt drive is a big contributor to the claimed 10-percent weight loss. Anecdotally, we suspect the 10-percent number translates to almost 50 pounds. The new one-piece front bulkhead saves weight and lowers the overall parts count.
The new composite fiber running boards are lighter than aluminum and provide improved grip. The sled’s wiring harness has been rationalized to save one pound. The overall reality of weight loss is seen in the blanket reduction of actual bodywork and chassis dimensions. The sled is simply smaller overall. The Catalyst uses substantially fewer fasteners – which one-by-one, add up to weight savings.
Gas Tank
This feature intrigues the fertile minds here at Supertrax/SnowTrax world headquarters. The new fuel tank is shaped to reduce fuel sloshing. The idea here is that when you accelerate, a flat bottom fuel tank allows the fuel to surge to the rear and the opposite effect is true under braking. By designing the fuel tank to resist for and aft sloshing means the sled will be more stable under all riding conditions. Cool idea.
Centralized Mass
For sure, every engaged snowmobiler has heard of this fundamental chassis design principle. By moving the jackshaft, drive axle and crankshaft centerline closer to one another and, more importantly, slightly rearward, the gyroscopic effect of rotating mass from the three spinning shafts becomes more easily managed by the rider.
Also, positioning this group of parts closer together – which comprise a substantial amount of weight – the sled flies straighter, stays level and corners more predictably. The rider effectively becomes more a part of the sled. This design cue is in play in both Ski-Doo’s G-5 and the Polaris MATRYX.
ALPHA
The M-Series Catalyst uses Arctic Cat’s unique, proprietary ALPHA single beam skid. While the setup is lighter in actual build weight there’s another important detail at play. The ALPHA skid sheds snow more efficiently than any other vertical-specific snowmobile.
Arctic Cat makes a lot of hay about this as the more snow the skid carries, the heavier it becomes is in real-world riding conditions. Truth is, this is a legit weight carving feature.
That’s a round up on the Catalyst for now. There’s still more to talk about and we’ll be doing just that in the near future.
"Revolutionary" and "game-changing" are thrown around so much, by everybody, that they're losing all meaning. Stepping from my old EDGE to a Pro was game-changing, but I doubt any current sled would be that big a jump, and it might be a while before anything is (coincidentally, my EDGE was an '02, Pro's a '12, and it's now '22...). As for powerplants, it seems like the sweet spot in price to performance is in the 800-850 NA range. A 600 with a turbo or supercharger is going to be around the same power (maybe a little more) than an 850, but weigh more, cost more, and have more parts to break.
You get another 40HP going from 600 to 800-850 at a cost of a few hundred dollars (their cost anyway) and 10lb or so of added weight (and sometimes no added weight - the Poo 650, for instance, is the same architecture as the 850, and virtually no difference in weight); by comparison, adding a turbo to a 600 has to cost them well over a thousand, adds at least 15lb, and probably won't outperform an 850 under any conditions. For truly light weight and low price, it's probably in the 700-800 range where you start to see diminishing returns, but that always seems to get goal-posted by the fleet-oriented 600/650 and the performance-oriented 800/850. I think if you were trying to make a one-size-fits-all mountain sled that truly gave you the best riding experience for the lowest cost, you'd probably end up in the 750 range. Or maybe a bigger, but simplified motor (no exhaust valves, for instance) would be the way to go.
The 9R will be interesting to see in that it'll give us a data point, and it should beat anything else NA. I suspect it'll be unbeatable in situations requiring immediate response, but we'll find you're paying a lot (in sale price and longevity) for a little more - not that there's anything wrong with that. Maybe as technology improves, you'll see the top NA motors continue to creep up in displacement, or maybe the limits are a little more hard and fast and it's just a question of how far you want to push the envelope; I'm not sure. Turbos are going to be part of the game from here out: the most powerful NA sled at 10k+ is similar in power to a 600 at sea level, where the turbo makes that all back up, and a bit more. It's not something most of us need to have, but the fun factor is there for almost anyone, and if you ride up high in really deep stuff, it's more of a necessity. Ultimately, my guess is we'll see something around 850 from Cat, and a turbo option. An 800 would be fine for my tastes, but you're going to lose some buyers now that 850 is the go-to. The 9R will probably be a niche choice even if it pans out, and I don't see Cat pushing the envelope to try and catch that. If I were Cat, the most difficult choice would be the turbo. In a sluggish economy, you'd probably see more sales by chasing the best value, and that would mean designing and packaging the sled without a turbo in mind. You'd be able to sell some turbo sleds, but it would cost a lot to chase a small segment of the market that Poo and Doo own at this point. On the other hand, if things turn around, the turbo segment will probably be the fastest-growing. Whatever the case, it's good to see some life from Cat finally!
You get another 40HP going from 600 to 800-850 at a cost of a few hundred dollars (their cost anyway) and 10lb or so of added weight (and sometimes no added weight - the Poo 650, for instance, is the same architecture as the 850, and virtually no difference in weight); by comparison, adding a turbo to a 600 has to cost them well over a thousand, adds at least 15lb, and probably won't outperform an 850 under any conditions. For truly light weight and low price, it's probably in the 700-800 range where you start to see diminishing returns, but that always seems to get goal-posted by the fleet-oriented 600/650 and the performance-oriented 800/850. I think if you were trying to make a one-size-fits-all mountain sled that truly gave you the best riding experience for the lowest cost, you'd probably end up in the 750 range. Or maybe a bigger, but simplified motor (no exhaust valves, for instance) would be the way to go.
The 9R will be interesting to see in that it'll give us a data point, and it should beat anything else NA. I suspect it'll be unbeatable in situations requiring immediate response, but we'll find you're paying a lot (in sale price and longevity) for a little more - not that there's anything wrong with that. Maybe as technology improves, you'll see the top NA motors continue to creep up in displacement, or maybe the limits are a little more hard and fast and it's just a question of how far you want to push the envelope; I'm not sure. Turbos are going to be part of the game from here out: the most powerful NA sled at 10k+ is similar in power to a 600 at sea level, where the turbo makes that all back up, and a bit more. It's not something most of us need to have, but the fun factor is there for almost anyone, and if you ride up high in really deep stuff, it's more of a necessity. Ultimately, my guess is we'll see something around 850 from Cat, and a turbo option. An 800 would be fine for my tastes, but you're going to lose some buyers now that 850 is the go-to. The 9R will probably be a niche choice even if it pans out, and I don't see Cat pushing the envelope to try and catch that. If I were Cat, the most difficult choice would be the turbo. In a sluggish economy, you'd probably see more sales by chasing the best value, and that would mean designing and packaging the sled without a turbo in mind. You'd be able to sell some turbo sleds, but it would cost a lot to chase a small segment of the market that Poo and Doo own at this point. On the other hand, if things turn around, the turbo segment will probably be the fastest-growing. Whatever the case, it's good to see some life from Cat finally!
M
Will any be available to purchase this season? I thought I remember seeing that some will be available in the spring, or was I drunk?
Really want a 146” twin rail one of these, think we can order a twin? “International spec”? Will settle for a 153/154 twin rail. Really don’t want to deal with a skid conversion and the alpha skid blows.
Really want a 146” twin rail one of these, think we can order a twin? “International spec”? Will settle for a 153/154 twin rail. Really don’t want to deal with a skid conversion and the alpha skid blows.
Demos will be available this spring. No word on early release models for purchase. Although I think they would be smart to have some in limited quantities for sale about March 1st.
They could slip a 153 twin rail on the order sheets and not say anything about it like they did mid-season in 2021. I wouldn't hold your breath for a twin rail yet in the US though. International models maybe, but can't get one here.
They could slip a 153 twin rail on the order sheets and not say anything about it like they did mid-season in 2021. I wouldn't hold your breath for a twin rail yet in the US though. International models maybe, but can't get one here.
C
R
Thats not really a fair comparision. You want the latest and greatest 450 KTM or 450RWE, its gonna be close to 13 out the door. 450SR will be even more. And theres a whole lot more materials and technology in a snowmobile than a bike.
C
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