ALMOST LIVE FROM THE WSSA SUMMER MEETING

[spencer]

Without the groomed trails we will loose all of our access, I am sure most of us had to notice last year less sleds due to limited groomed areas where maybe your Kids and wife's like to ride. For one my wife doesn't ride extreme areas that I enjoy, however she did enjoy the groomed until last year, too whooped out for her to enjoy, guess could be one less sled to register.

We all need to contribute to keep the whole sport funded, Like has been said 40 dollars is a drop in the bucket to see a smile on your family's face, I register and maintain 4 sleds. As a family we enjoy this sport in more than just back country extreme riding.

For those who decide to rebel and not register, your only hurting this sport. Thanks to all Like Dan who have spent countless hours fighting for our recreational rights, for all those who rebel, you are selfishly hurting their efforts to keep it alive, you may as well Join the coalition to ban Snowmobiling.

 

[WaBackcountry]

The point that some people are trying to make is that this is our land and we should be able to use it for free. Some folks don't care about a plowed parking lot or groomed trails. In fact some would prefer no plowing or grooming......it would certainly keep the crowds away. But we all are forced to pay fees so that Bob and his eight kids can pull his 40' trailer to a plowed parking and drag them up a groomed trail. That is essentially a ski area. Well I don't want a ski area. If I have to chain up or ride whoops for 10 miles to get the backcountry then that is what I will do.

I am fine paying a little to make things better for others and i will enjoy the occasional groomed trail but keep it real.


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[WaBackcountry]

perhaps state parks could set up a pay station to charge a daily trail fee to the guys who refuse to register their sleds. And that money could go into the grooming program. $20 per day, per sled would be the same that they charge in many areas of B.C.

It would be your choice.....either buy your tabs for the year, or pay at the snowpark each day you ride

you gotta pay to play, nothing is free. you can't go to a ski area and ride their lifts for free.

Yes, let's grow government even more. And the Forest Circus can hire another employee to collect the fees. Oh wait, by the time we pay the government employee we don't have any money left for the grooming. Stop feeding the monster.

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[SNOBI-WAN-KENOBI]

I would have posted from the meeting but we had no cell or internet service on bluett pass. For info , WSSA did vote for a $40 snopark permit. We've been getting them for free for all these years, It's a fair price, and wont "kill" anyone. We had to match the same price as the skiers snopark to avoid them buying a cheeper pass from the motorized program. To all of you who are going to have a fit, just remember our Motorized program is in serious trouble, we've lost nearly 28% of our grooming funds the last 3 years, with sled registrations trending down the last 3 years we had to do something. Also, WSSA argued back and forth as to how much to raise the license fee's for our sled, the "Cheep skates" won out, I'm not a rich guy by any means but I'd certainly pay 20 or 30 bucks more per sled to get better grooming and all else that goes with the program. But they did vote for a $10 increase per sled the first year and 10 more on the second year for a total of $20 over a 2 year period, BUT REMEMBER, the sled registration money will not hit our bank account till 2014 at the earliest, It still has to go thru Olympia. Most likely we wont see the snopark money till 2014 either, so for next year, expect less grooming than this year, just the facts folks. The groomers did take another 9% hit for this coming season. I have to say for all the people that wanted to increase fee's ect, very few people showed up, Myself and several others were very disappointed with the turn out. Dont get me wrong , I've always been a wssa supporter and they've done a lot for our sport, but trying to change the minds of some of these people is a real challenge. Many of them are still living in the year 2000, not 2012. At least they agreed on some kind of an increase, now lets see if we can get it thru Olympia ??

Thanks Jet Boy's!!! I won't mind paying xtra fees for our sport. From$0 for a sno-park permit to $40 should extend the grooming season,and other needs as required...Thanks for the input!!

 

[spencer]

The point that some people are trying to make is that this is our land and we should be able to use it for free. Some folks don't care about a plowed parking lot or groomed trails. In fact some would prefer no plowing or grooming......it would certainly keep the crowds away. But we all are forced to pay fees so that Bob and his eight kids can pull his 40' trailer to a plowed parking and drag them up a groomed trail. That is essentially a ski area. Well I don't want a ski area. If I have to chain up or ride whoops for 10 miles to get the backcountry then that is what I will do.

I am fine paying a little to make things better for others and i will enjoy the occasional groomed trail but keep it real.


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Don't think anyone is asking to pay for Bob and the eight kids, I am certain he has most of those sleds registered. Imagine Gold Creek with with no Plowing ? How many Pick ups with Decks could access this area before the subjected County put up no Parking sign's and tow the Vehicles away ? By maintaining our Snow parks we have some what of a historic claim to keep these areas open. If we simply just let our Recreation area slide away the FS or Parks department will close them down due to being designated unsafe for user groups such as Us.

We all hate to pay into a kitty we get little out of, WSSA is simply asking to improve these areas so their not lost, 40 dollars is really nothing for all of us who truck around in 40 grand worth of mechanical equipment to sled the high country.

Thanks for your help.

 

[paulharris]

Don't think anyone is asking to pay for Bob and the eight kids, I am certain he has most of those sleds registered. Imagine Gold Creek with with no Plowing ? How many Pick ups with Decks could access this area before the subjected County put up no Parking sign's and tow the Vehicles away ? By maintaining our Snow parks we have some what of a historic claim to keep these areas open. If we simply just let our Recreation area slide away the FS or Parks department will close them down due to being designated unsafe for user groups such as Us.

We all hate to pay into a kitty we get little out of, WSSA is simply asking to improve these areas so their not lost, 40 dollars is really nothing for all of us who truck around in 40 grand worth of mechanical equipment to sled the high country.

Thanks for your help.

Very True, clubs have been maintaining and grooming these areas for many years. That will help us keep access in the future. If the grooming and maintenance stops who knows what will happen. It is Unbelievable that some idiots can't comprehend that this is about a lot more than just grooming issues. Its about keeping the sport alive. and the dollar amount we are talking about will not even pay for half of a new belt for your sled. disgust.

 

[WaBackcountry]

Very True, clubs have been maintaining and grooming these areas for many years. That will help us keep access in the future. If the grooming and maintenance stops who knows what will happen. It is Unbelievable that some idiots can't comprehend that this is about a lot more than just grooming issues. Its about keeping the sport alive

Idiots.....Because they don't agree with you. I think your confused and ignorant.

Like I said before. I am fine paying a little more to subsidize the masses, and I also benefit, in theory, because I do ride groomed trails and untilize the parking lots sometimes. But I don't think it is fair that someone in eastern washington should see his tabs drastically increased if he never uses a snopark or groomed trail.





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[mthompson223]

What is this? A public sector union negotiation? You guys using the argument that Canada's snowmobiling system is far more expensive to use makes and we should therefore raise our prices to be comparable with BC makes no sense at all. It's another country and are we talking Canadian or US dollars? And the argument that a lift ticket at a ski resort is X amount of dollars sounds ridiculous. The only similarities I see in that argument is the presence of frozen water on the ground is generally required to enjoy both sports.

 

[paulharris]

Idiots.....Because they don't agree with you. I think your confused and ignorant.

Like I said before. I am fine paying a little more to subsidize the masses, and I also benefit, in theory, because I do ride groomed trails and untilize the parking lots sometimes. But I don't think it is fair that someone in eastern washington should see his tabs drastically increased if he never uses a snopark or groomed trail.

the only one confused and ignorant here is someone who whines and complains about spending $50 per year to support the future of snowmobiling in washington but does not think twice about spending $10,000 + for a snowmobile plus hundreds of dollars in belts, pipes, fuel, oil, etc. Give me a break. have you really been wronged and violated because you might pay a few dollars for a snow park or trail somewhere else in the state you do not use?

 

[PowderMiner]

Good points from all sides; but still need a solution and that is going to take the trust of some of the senior sled representatives.

It seems that access should be the primary concern of everyone. You may not use the big parking area but if shut down some of those folks may find your hit and run spot and get it shut down...

Grooming conditions vary and local clubs and grooming councils can work that out.

I'd support a modest increase. I will be adding a registration to an additional sled this year.

 

[snowpatrol]

what are all you,( i'm not gonna pay people ) do, when the political azzwipes start taxing you for every mile you drive on the public highway's ? so they can pay for road's. you gonna stop driving ? i don't think so. believe me, IT'S COMING !! you might as well pay a little extra for something you love to do.

 

[BigT]

Its pretty simple, we are going to pay to play. Thats simply how it works! It doesn't matter weather you like it or not--its fact. If you don't pay you may get caught and then pay more. Not a whole lot different than the discovery pass if you ask me. If I want to fish or hunt or hike or simply step my foot on DNR land I need to have a discovery pass. If I don't, I risk paying the fine. Its basically a use tax. If enough of us don't get the discovery pass, they will find another way to get the money from the users.
I support the increase, not because I am made of money but because I am willing to pay a few extra $$$ so that I can continue to ride.
My $.02

BigT

 

[ruffryder]

But I don't think it is fair that someone in eastern washington should see his tabs drastically increased if he never uses a snopark or groomed trail.

Do you rarely use snoparks or groomed trails?

 

[AZ800]

As long as the Sno park pass money goes towards grooming and parking lot maint, that's great.
Sh!tty trails make for a not so fun day when I take the family. My wife and 9 yr old don't like hitting the mogul run for miles on end " to get to the good stuff", because the trail in, and back out IS "the good stuff" for them.
Personally I like a decent ride up and back as well. Anyone who says they prefer 10mi of pounded out whoops and jumps on the ride back down to the truck is so full of crap their eyes are brown!
Just moving to WA last year, I'm not in favor of their tax structure at all. I pay more taxes with NO state income tax than I ever have in any other state.

Cost me $1100 just to register my 2 used sleds when I got here. Cost $4k to register the boat the first time. Oh and WA won't even register my quad or dirtbike because I don't have prev registration or proof of ownership beyond a hand written bill of sale. Translation, they won't take my money for these 2 machines. I'm gonna have to fake an address in my prev state to register them by mail....then pay again ****in use tax to register them here!
I've paid enough to buy a darn nice used sled in the last 12months just to register my toys in this state and I'm not done yet!
Where did that $5k go? It isn't into the sh!tty boat launch at Sammamish , that's for sure. DOesn't cost alot to maintain water, not like they clean the lake weekly or something. Figure my boat registration and $30 Discover pass should be enough to blade a sopt to park the truck and boat trailer. WHERE DID THE $5k GO??? None of those machines were ever sold or purchased in WA!

Sorry got off track. Even though WA sucks, I'll drop an extra $40 no problem to support the sport, but I'm gonna be pissed when the grooming isn't there.

 

[ericbigbore]

It sure would be nice to have groomed trails in April when we have some of our best snow... Do any of you people who cant seem to come up with more money for user fee's ever ride in Idaho or BC? Washington is a joke by comparison when it comes to groomies.

I'm tired of the argument over this! And Dan, I really appreciate your efforts!! It's gotta be tough to listen to all of the BS and peeps with several sleds saying they should not have to pay more to use the trails. I just don't get it? It's the same guys with $200 in Monster stickers on their sleds..

WSSA - I quit you!! Take me off your list and don't ask for one more cent from me until you get rid of these old-school idiots that are stuck in the 80's with user-fees!! You will get my formal request to take me off your list today.

 

[Matte Murder]

AZ800 I didn't know they extorted the "use tax" on all toys when they are registered for the first time in WA. I bet that is a big surprise for all the CA people moving north with boats and RVs and stuff. That is just wrong. They are just trying to collect the sales tax on everything people own when they get here and call it use tax. At least it is a one time raping and you don't have to "get used to it".

 

[snowmobiler]

dang.and i thought 87 bucks to reg a sled in ore was high.

 

[paulharris]

As long as the Sno park pass money goes towards grooming and parking lot maint, that's great.
Sh!tty trails make for a not so fun day when I take the family. My wife and 9 yr old don't like hitting the mogul run for miles on end " to get to the good stuff", because the trail in, and back out IS "the good stuff" for them.
Personally I like a decent ride up and back as well. Anyone who says they prefer 10mi of pounded out whoops and jumps on the ride back down to the truck is so full of crap their eyes are brown!
Just moving to WA last year, I'm not in favor of their tax structure at all. I pay more taxes with NO state income tax than I ever have in any other state.

Cost me $1100 just to register my 2 used sleds when I got here. Cost $4k to register the boat the first time. Oh and WA won't even register my quad or dirtbike because I don't have prev registration or proof of ownership beyond a hand written bill of sale. Translation, they won't take my money for these 2 machines. I'm gonna have to fake an address in my prev state to register them by mail....then pay again ****in use tax to register them here!
I've paid enough to buy a darn nice used sled in the last 12months just to register my toys in this state and I'm not done yet!
Where did that $5k go? It isn't into the sh!tty boat launch at Sammamish , that's for sure. DOesn't cost alot to maintain water, not like they clean the lake weekly or something. Figure my boat registration and $30 Discover pass should be enough to blade a sopt to park the truck and boat trailer. WHERE DID THE $5k GO??? None of those machines were ever sold or purchased in WA!

Sorry got off track. Even though WA sucks, I'll drop an extra $40 no problem to support the sport, but I'm gonna be pissed when the grooming isn't there.

I'm sure you know this, but keep in mind that not a dime of that "registration" money you paid when you moved to WA actually went into the snowmobile program. That was Washington state Sales Tax, or Use tax whatever they call it based on the value of your machines. Well, you probably did pay into the snowmobile program but it would have only been $35 or $40 per sled.

 

[paulharris]

WSSA - I quit you!! Take me off your list and don't ask for one more cent from me until you get rid of these old-school idiots that are stuck in the 80's with user-fees!! You will get my formal request to take me off your list today.

You want to boycott the one of the only voices for snowmobiling in Washington? In case you have not heard, greenies are working diligently on getting snowmobiles banned from as many areas as they possibly can. Yes these people may be old school and not perfect, but at least they care enough to be involved. Sadly, the same can't be said for most snowmobilers. would you give up your free time to attend the WSSA summer meetings? By boycotting WSSA do you really think that will help our sport?

 

[ericbigbore]

You want to boycott the one of the only voices for snowmobiling in Washington? In case you have not heard, greenies are working diligently on getting snowmobiles banned from as many areas as they possibly can. Yes these people may be old school and not perfect, but at least they care enough to be involved. Sadly, the same can't be said for most snowmobilers. would you give up your free time to attend the WSSA summer meetings? By boycotting WSSA do you really think that will help our sport?

Not asking for a boycott, it's my personal choice. At first when I read Dan's post, I thought a boycott would maybe be a good idea to send a message. It would make no difference either way. And, to be totally honest I only gave them like $25 bucks last year. I usually gave my money at the snow show but have missed the last few years due to hunting season.

I'm done giving anything. I have been in the fight, written several letters, been to meetings, given money, and nothing ever changes. All we do is lose land and grooming fees. WSSA needs new blood. And, to answer your question, I would give up time for more summer meetings if I thought I could make a difference but it's pointless.

As far as the greenies taking our land away, if they take one more inch of land from us here in Washington, I'm going to ride anywhere I want from that point forward and so are a lot of other pi$$ed off riders.

I'm a mid week storm chaser so I really don't have a huge dog in the fight, but our system is a joke. Less money every year period. We pay a grand total of $35 bucks a year per sled, now $45 and every dime goes back to us, it's our user fee. It's nothing. 1 day of skiing is $75 bucks or more, 1 day..

Good luck - I'm out.