660 long stroked Indy Powersports/Carls Cyc Questions

[Rush600guy]

Ok got my new 660 Long Stroke from Indy Powersports, awesome guys to do business with. Does anyone have experience with these and what can you tell me?
Currently waiting on my reflashed ECU, taking months now, but should be in the mail today. Installed the motor and suprisingly starts up with stock ecu, altho that was just a very short lived and singular test to make sure I had it plugged in right.
Before I list off questions, might as well state what else is in there.
Bigger intake
VF3 reeds
Fuel Commander V, Autotune, and the dash
AAEN pipe and can
Also have stock can, and a double pipe I pulled off a 440 ski doo - which the pipe is rated up to* 800ccs I guess, and could potentially fit right inside my rush.
I'm also at sea level.
Have pink spring primary and a helix'd re-springed secondary- forget brand, but I could find out.

Questions:
Clutching!!! Please help, might be fine for now but I'll know in a week or two when I really start ths motor. I know ill need new weights tho, what weight and main spring would be worthy?

Fuel Commander V, any good maps I can use to start with?

Twin pipes worth the effort (I'd need to cut & weld a bent bar into my steering column to combat the fitment issue), or stick with AAEN?

Assuming I need to invest in some AV gas to combat DET, how much in the mix? We only have 89 Octane and AV up here in the AK Bush.

Premium or 10% Eth plug?

Spark plugs?

Sea level isn't gonna mess up my motor I hope, shouldn't, right?

 

[NapaMatt]

Running yet??

I may have a map

 

[volcano buster]

I haven't heard anyone running a double pipe setup on a 660. I have SLP pipe/can on my Struthers 660 and it seems to work fine.

The clutching will be interesting as the engine has a bit more power output over the 600 until it gets up to RPM then it behaves a bit more like a 700/800 engine so it is not a linear output like a factory engine. I attempted to clutch mine like a 600 and it would over rev on the top and when clutched like an 800 it would struggle to pull off the bottom.

Mine likes 8300-8500 so I have a little leeway as I change elevation. The motor is also a very fast revving setup so I like a lighter weight with a little lighter spring instead of simply throwing more weight to calm the top end down.

I'm finding two pink springs. Neither are very exciting to me. The Polaris spring is likely for a small fan cooled sled so I'll disregard. The Team spring would be a launching fool with that 180# start rate. I prefer a 140# to start as it gives the desired rpm at engagement for me. I currently have a Team blue/pink which should be a 140/340 spring.

Pink Polaris spring: 112# and 200#
Pink Team spring: 180# and 320#

Sea level? Hmmmm, I have seen too many posts that these engines were not designed for sea level use. Not exactly sure why.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

A 660 with twin pipes would be fun! Once you figured out the tuning, anyway. I can't think of any twin pipes I've seen for the Pro though; somebody's probably made them for the 800 at least, but they seemed to have fallen so far out of favor that SLP's 850 twins were kind of a surprise.

Not surprising that the clutching is complicated. It's not a 600 anymore, but it's still a smaller motor than an 800. I run the black/green Polaris spring in my old 600 along with SLP magnum force adjustable weights; I've been pretty happy with it, although it's not perfect. The bk/gn spring is 120/340, so pretty close to what you're running. There are several Polaris springs in the 120-140 x 300-320 range, FWIW. Just a stab in the dark based on my limited clutching knowledge, but I'd look into a weight that's heavier at the tip, and/or a helix with a steeper finish angle.

Can't see why you couldn't run a 660 at sea level, but could require head work to reduce compression. An increase in displacement with the same head volume will increase compression. Anyway, very interested in reports on 660s. My next sled may very well be a 600 Pro, and if I like that well enough, the next step would be a 660. The way people who've done it rave, I have to wonder if Polaris would be smart to bring back the 700 class (ideally based on a new design for both the 600 and 700-class), even if it means killing off the 800.

 

[seef158]

I would look at clutching for the 700cfi sleds as a baseline if it were me. I owned a few of the 700s and they'd hang right with an 800 of rhe same year, wish they were still around!

 

[NapaMatt]

should be using a blue/ pink primary spring.. and 66 weights

 

[Rush600guy]

Apologies I've been working on it practically every day and so much has changed.

She runs!

Had it going great today but I've been scratching my head on this hesitation/bog.

Has a real iffy WOT...
Sometimes I'll head out, WOT (hesitates/falls on its face, DET flashes, max rpm 7850 w/ feathering throttle to get higher. Have to stop n kill it, restart, and fine.

Been building this for 2 years so everything is good and I've learned a lot, but...
Feels like a lean fuel issue so I've been tracing the fuel system diligently.

Cleaned and swapped some other Y injectors, minor to no difference.
Temporarily Switching out the fuel filter with a new* (sitting around) Axys one that somehow fit without pinching the hose ($140 OEM and not in town so I made my own for $20 - replaced element, doesnt leak, waiting for rtv to cure, specially crimped... #NomeAK hard to source stuff locally) and got some 100LL today. No DET flash and that explained that.
New Max RPM is 8100, I want it 82-8350, without bog/hesitation.
I have a fuel commander/autotune I need to set up just waiting to borrow a windows 10 computer.

Honestly after my research tonight Id re-found this thread I'd completely forgotten about lol...
I think it's my belt, deflection, clutching... and I cannot find any good information on it.
You guys have some good advice tho, and I think I've acquired all the stuff I need ..
Reset deflection - test
Plenty different belt #s but wish I has an 3211122 in good shape.
Couple sets of stock primarys/secondarys I'm gonna try tomorrow.
My clutch/secondary is a little over built without much thought, have to take a step back...
Belly buster 66-84 w Pink spring - have a blue spring in another clutch, and black oem.
Secondary w/ helix (dunno the #'s) and I think a spring... most likely my issue if not belt & or deflection.

... other than that idk, fuel pump seems good. I need a better shrader valve adapter so I can test it WOT. Also, I'm gonna clean out my VES solenoid. Ves valves were cleaned the other day.

Almost near the end of the road with this project... I'm afraid I'll never be done though... fix one issue and I find another.




Hesitation/bog is still alive. Which sucks,


I'm gonna recheck my VES, and solenoid.

Entirely open to any and all advice, please...

 

[Rush600guy]

And I'm at sea level, so ya with our dirty Bush town crap gas 87 - it loves to DET. 100LL w a 70/30 ratio I think brought it up to 93 octane and overcame that obstacle.
Our gas is real crap tho. Only gets shipped in via summer barges, and sits in giant tanks till it's sold out. I cut open my old fuel filter today and it was nasty.

 

[Rush600guy]

Just ordered the blue/pink spring... any ideas about the secondary? I wonder if my helix and spring is worth keeping... idk, trying an OEM set up tomorrow and I'll report back about my tests

Hopefully hesitation/bog goes away!!! It's bad, real bad.

 

[volcano buster]

In your location and with your shorter track I'm not sure you will be noticing any changes by going to a different secondary set up.

I would focus more on engagement RPM and full WOT RPM and clutch the primary accordingly. The bad gas and DET are more concerning to me as I had enough DET to break a ring on mine and chip away at the top edge of the piston.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

I don't have any specific ideas on those symptoms, but if there's any way you could get a tank of fresh gas in it and eliminate that possibility, I'd do it. Maybe even full 100LL if that's what it takes. Bad gas can just be so inconsistent (especially if it's moisture-contaminated), even burning through one tank. We're too quick to blame a tank of bad gas for gremlins down here, considering how good a job the supply system does of providing most of us with fresh gas, but your supply sounds much more suspect. Even ethanol-free 87 will degrade sitting that long, and if it's got ethanol, I'd be a little scared of it!

 

[Rush600guy]

Felt inclined to just replace a mess of stuff...
Checked tps with an Indy PS $250 tester - good.
Fuel pump and filter, tested, still boggy.
Checked my belt deflection, still boggy.
Tried a couple different clutches, including an axys primary/secondary/belt - belt was too short. Went back to my built primary and a stock secondary.
Cleaned out my VES solenoid and hoses - had ice plugging it the intake side. Gonna double check my VES later tonight.

None of that made any drastic difference, but I figured out my bogg.
Was my new Boyeson reeds, had a bit of back blast on the intake side, figured I'd switch em out OEM - no more bogg. Noticed my boyeson's reeds were not seated air tight, just a hair of space, possibly allowing blowback? Most likely reason for my sluggish bog.

Took it back out and my response was somewhat spectacular, bit of bog still/no hesitation, but still DET - if not more than usual. Every few blocks in town I'd pin it, and see my dash flash yellow... like, damn.

Max rpm 8100 still

Gonna check my VES cylinder hole, check my tank vent for a pinch, put on my stock exhaust, and check my clutch rollers for flat spots... any other ideas?

100ll is $8/g, otherwise ya it's last summers storage tanked 87 Octane at $5/gal. I'll have to consider trying it tho. Compression is 120 and 116 cold.

 

[Rush600guy]

Ok all fixed!!!
I think it was either my T Map sensor (replaced w one sitting around) and/or my EGT sensor/AAEN fatpipe (replaced w/ stock pipe, sounds burlier even - less "whaAaa" more "BruuuAah" lol).
Prolly pissed off everyone in this tiny sled town just now... definitely woke up my gf, and a couple people came by to see if that was me.

No DET, no matter how hard I tried...
8100rpm max still, thinking that extra 250rpm is hiding in my primary clutch set up (pink spring
/66g belly buster weights). Blue/pink spring is ETA a few days out.
Anyone here have a sea level 660?
Hows your clutch setup?

 

[Rush600guy]

Running yet??

I may have a map

I'll take it, please

 

[diamonddave]

Is this truly a stroked 600 using 600 pistons or is this a stock stroke 600 made by using OE 700 pistons?

Are you running the stock mapping in the ECU? I couldn't tell if you are running a Power Commander?

The Carl's Cycle 660 just used 700 pistons and is a great running motor. Tuning and clutching at lower elevations is different than 6k plus. The motor rev's incredibly quick and fast so clutching takes a different philosophy. I used to play around with these motors quite a bit.

 

[Rush600guy]

Is this truly a stroked 600 using 600 pistons or is this a stock stroke 600 made by using OE 700 pistons?

Are you running the stock mapping in the ECU? I couldn't tell if you are running a Power Commander?

The Carl's Cycle 660 just used 700 pistons and is a great running motor. Tuning and clutching at lower elevations is different than 6k plus. The motor rev's incredibly quick and fast so clutching takes a different philosophy. I used to play around with these motors quite a bit.

It's a stroked 600 using (Wossner) 700 pistons.
My first set... i wasn't warned... that putting on the OEM 600 VES Valves, (only took me 10 minutes), would stick too far into my cylinder. FML. Only took one 5 seconds start. So - I know Carles Cycle prefers OEM pistons, but I've had my eye on these forever.
German milled, engineered, lightweught, rare, and both were a perfect fit... if anything revs faster now.
My clutching at 0'fsw is still not where I need it.
66g blue/pink spring, oem secondary. 8100rpm max and 85mph. Sucks, its definitely my clutching. New bearings all around, new everything.
I could put my old helix in.

 

[Rush600guy]

I mean I have another, built, helix/spring combo... I cant recall the helix/spring numbers though. Unfortunately.

 

[Rush600guy]

If anything I prefer the built secondary to the [current] OEM secondary, but idk, yet... I try to play with it often.
Have available primary springs: black/gold spring to try, looks short, off arctic cat. Also a yellow blue arctic cat, Havent tried yet. Pink, slp I think. And blue pink, slp.
10-66g oem
10-64g oem
66g-82g Belly busters

 

[Rush600guy]

This is all for 0'ft-1,000ft prefered

 

[Rush600guy]

I ditched the power commander and put in OEM reeds, the ECU is remapped by Carles Cycle.

I forgot to mention I went for a 100 mile ride the other weekend and she DET'd... a few times, WOT more than 10 seconds. All my sensors should be good, if not clutching then maybe gas? We only get 87 Oct. Nome, AK. It's possible to get 100ll though. I've mixed 100ll before, but didnt push it.