08 D8 track alternative

[mountainhorse]

Gets me thinking....

For the 2.25" track... on 3" pitch, 8 tooth drivers... an approximation... I'm assuming the Cat Power Claw is a single ply track.... the clearance would open up by the .15" shorter lug LESS the added radius of the 3" pitch, 8 tooth driver (.195") or about .045" Less clearance than the stock Dragon single ply 2.4"... wow... less clearance than the stock 2.4... Who da thunk it???

This would make the 8 tooth driven 3" pitch, 2.25" P Claw track have just a hair (.055" or 50 thou) more clearance than the stock driver 2.5" lug height, 2.86" pitch Camo extreme...HMMMM..... not much eh?

 

[MURFDOG]

MH- Yes I'm running 8 tooth Avids on my sled, But also changed out the skid to EZ-Ryde so there isn't a any issue of contact with drivers, The position of the EZ-Ryde lends about three in. of clearance between rail tips and the drivers

 

[mountainhorse]

Murf.... sounds like a great combo....

Sounds like the EZ-Ryde also lowers the angle of attack at the front of the track.

Could I trouble you to post some good pics of your install?
Like a full side shot of the whole sled from down low (level with the bottom of the tunnel) that shows the angle of attack, a close up of the drivers, a shot deep inside of the tunnel from the rear that shows the clearance of the Power claw to the roof of the tunnel where the tunnel-roof-coolers end at the front and maybe one of the track where it exits the tunnel at the front with the sled tipped up.... I'd really like to see those pix...

Also, with the power claw... I was wondering if you could take a measurement of the clearance of the lug tip to the tunnel roof at the cooler end ?? (Drill bits work great for this)

Keep us informend on the performance...

Sounds like the Angle of attack on these EZ-Ryde and M-10 Equipped sleds is much better for performance in the deep stuff from what I've read.

 

[RMK935VA]

MH, I know that the clearance is tight but after installation of the Challenger 2.5" track, I cannot justify the expense of a D&R kit. I am making very good track speed even in heavy snow with a Struthers ported engine running an SLP single pipe. It is yanking that track a lot better than the piped only version of the motor was yanking the stock track last year. I had some trenching issues that were either clutching and/or suspension setup problems. I think it is corrected now but i may not be able to find out. I have a severely herniated disc in my back that is probably going to require surgery which will sideline me until late spring at best. The Camoplast track should really shine in those conditions which is the main reason I switched tracks. The stock track was scary last spring. It felt like an Attack 20 (very greasy)!

 

[bigfoot]

Problem with the 2.5" tracks (heck... even the stock 2.4" tracks) is the lack of clearance to the roof of the tunnel. On the Dragons, without the front tunnel heat exchanger, the clearance at the exit/roll of the tunnel is just fine... on the non-Dragons, 2008 155" models, and all 2007 and previous IQ-RMK's With the front tunnel heat exchanger... this dimension at the exit is a bit tighter (about 5/8" less).

A good friend of mine has a turbo D-8 .... he has the 2.86" pitch 163" x 15" x 2.5"...
Running the stock 8 tooth drivers (stock 3 driver Dragon setup)...

There is less than 1/4" clearance at the roof of his tunnel...He trimmed his lugs a bit since install...

Basic fluid-mechanics.... the ch extreme moves more snow... and has less lug tip to tunnel clearance...parasitic drag as the track moves snow thru the tunnel is pretty significant with this small of clearance...kind of like running with the brake slightly pressed....this robs power, heats up the clutches and gives more inconsistent performance... less obvious in "Champaign" powder... much more in high moisture snow . Less obvious too for a turbo that can overpower the drag.

Now, EricW is running the 7 tooth drivers and a very high dollar M-10 suspension that was custom installed. Too many variables have been changed like suspension action and angle of attack to compare this to a stock setup.

On a stock sled, the 7 tooth drivers with the 3" pitch track will give a bit more clearance...no where near ideal... PLUS the smaller diameter will bring the inside of the top of the track into contact with the stock skids front swingarm at the top rub pads... you would need to suck up the limiter strap and relocate the tunnel to swing arm bolts a bit lower... for those that have this track (3" pitch 2.5" lug) with the 7 tooth drivers.. check for constant contact (rubbing) of the track and swing arm upper...Remember this is a 3" pitch track so a 7 tooth driver is not that much smaller than a 8 tooth 2.86" pitch... and no 7 tooth 2.86" pitch is available [yet, but maybe if engough people bug Robbie he'll make them]

I'm asking these questions sincerely because I'd like to get accurate info from people that are actually running the tracks on their RAW Chassis 2.86" pitch setups?

Bigfoot... check for that rubbing on the track I mentioned above (or have you moved/changed the skid?)

Murfdog... are you running 8 tooth drivers on your sled with that Power Claw now?

Kale and 935VA.....Have look inside of your tunnel from the rear... look fwd to where the tunnel coolers end ... you'll see that 1/4" I talk about. The front of the tunnel exit has decent clearance.. that is not the tight spot on these RAW chassis. Also, have you had it in any really deep, really heavy snow yet? Did you do ANY other changes to the chassis at the same time you changed the track (clutching/gearing/etc?)

I have seen the stock, series 5.1 [both single and double ply] 163" x 15 x 2.4" Dragon (not to be confused with the series 5.0 2007 Dragon Track) track kick azz on the hill ... heck, Alan at Timbersled has one on his Alpine Turbo'd Nytro with good luck.

IMO... on a non-D&R sled... a shorter lug will give you higher track speed and better performance....

For me, this year... I'll be running the 2009 155" single ply Dragon track with a Dropped chaincase/driveshaft. I'm thinking really hard about the power claw after hearing such stellar reports on it from people like DUB and others that I trust.... I think that a 2.25" track is more of an optimal height in this chassis... the stock 2.4" (only 0.10" shorter than the tall extreme) It's a big hit with the High Hp Yami and Cat crowd too

But then again... this is an opinion.... everybody has one...:face-icon-small-win

As a note... the 2.25" Challenger extreme uses a MUCH softer compound than the 2.5" version.

I checked the clearance you were talking about here, and it is indeed touching; barely, and I mean just barely at rest on my sled deck. I think under power it would not be except for the ocassional slap. The straps don't show any more wear than they had when I changed the track. I did not relocate my suspension and my limiter straps are in the center hole with the front shock layed down.

You are probably correct that this track soaks up a bit more hp than the stocker, but the trade off is more than worth it over the stock track. I have gained the ability to stop and start nearly anywhere at will, within reason. Getting unstuck is much easier as it will claw it's way out of holes you wouldn't think it should. I run this on an 07 600 with an SLP pipe and intake, I have re-geared to 18/43 and clutched the sled correctly and have not found it lacking the power to turn the track. It climbs like a mountain goat and just keeps finding bite. I put it strongly in the "mod that I've gotten my money's worth" category.

 

[chief 8101]

I have a 2008 Dragon 800 163 and have a couple of track questions:

What series is my track?

I have changed my rear suspension out to the Holtz, if I wanted to change my track to the Powerclaw, what size drivers will I need 8 tooth or 7 tooth and will I have any clearance issues.

I've read the math above and it gets confusing so I am looking for a nice straight forward answer that a simple guy like me can understand

Also, I hear that the powerclaw is outstanding in the powder, but there may be some issues in the harder snow, especially when going down hill. I really don't want to loose braking capability in the spring snow since that can get expensive in repairs.

With the nice hard concrete snow in the northwest right now does anyone have any first hand experience with these tracks and their braking capability versus the stock tracks on the 2008 dragons?

 

[Nelson]

By going with the powderclaw, you will need to switch to 3.0 pitch drivers. 8 tooth preferred, 7 tooth might bring the track to close to your rails, but you stated that you changed your skid out to a Holz? you might be fine running a 7 tooth driver without having any track issues with your rails as it gives your skid a different angle of attack. If you use a 8 tooth 3.0 pitch driver with the 2.25 powderclaw presumably if I have MH's math right your lug height will be .045 (45 thou.) taller than the polaris 2.4 lug with 8 tooth 2.86 pitch drivers narrowing your clearance just a little bit. Keep in mind that the powderclaw is a softer track which is why you hear that it doesn't hook well on the hard stuff.

 

[chief 8101]

Nelson,

Thanks for the info. Do you know what series the stock track is off of my 2008 dragon?

In your opinion is it worth the money to switch to the powerclaw track from my stock one?

I ride primarily in the cascades of washington with a few trips each year to McCall and/or Revy or other areas.

 

[RMK935VA]

I have experience with the Challenger Extreme on two sleds; an Edge BB (Struthers 935) and on my 08 D8. I can say unequivocally that you can stop better on the hill than anything else I have tried. I can't say anything about the Powerclaw as far as stopping in spring snow conditions. I would think that it would do pretty well since it has the stiff fingers on the outer edges but who knows?

I have been riding with some Ski Doo guys who are running Challenger Extreme 2.5" tracks (07 800s and one RT1000). These guys love the track in all conditions. It does better than the stock Ski Doo track by quite a bit compared to similar machines (mild mods).

Another mod that these Doo riders swear by is running a Polaris Primary clutch. All of the 800 riders have them and love the difference that it makes. I am not sure why it works better but it does according to them.

 

[chief 8101]

So are you saying that the stock track on the 08 dragon is the exact same track as the challenger extreme?

 

[bigfoot]

So are you saying that the stock track on the 08 dragon is the exact same track as the challenger extreme?

No you have a series 5.1 polaris, stock on your 08.

 

[Nelson]

Yep forgot to state that it is 5.1 series track. As for knowing if it is worth the money to change to the powderclaw I'm not sure just because I have no experiance with running the powderclaw or the challenger extreme. The tracks I've used are the Polaris series 5.0 and challenger.

 

[chief 8101]

Since pretty much all the northwest is spring snow with hard packed snow/ice, anyone have some more experience with the powerclaw in these conditions? How about coming downhill versus the stock polaris 5.1 track?

 

[chief 8101]

ttt

 

[Ron]

Nelson,

Thanks for the info. Do you know what series the stock track is off of my 2008 dragon?

In your opinion is it worth the money to switch to the powerclaw track from my stock one?

I ride primarily in the cascades of washington with a few trips each year to McCall and/or Revy or other areas.

There is another option, clipping the lug height on the stock track. Have seen some posts from some that have cut the lug, gets rid of the soft tips and FBomb has put some hardware in the lug. Might do a search or PM FBomb.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I will add this..I put the 2.5 camo extreme under my 08 D-8 163 this season..using stock drivers and Curts(fastrax motorsports) drop and roll....this track puts the stock 5.1 2 ply to shame..mine is stock updated 10 motor, slp single setup well clutched and geared to 19/42....at 3000 ft elevation in warm moist deep powder it pulled 8350 rpm at 47 mph track speed...at the tightest point in the tunnel I have 1 and 1/16 inch clearence...track allows sled to just go..the difference in traction is amazing..one of the best mods I have done by far,,,......

 

[mountainhorse]

ttt

 

[rmkboxer]

Since pretty much all the northwest is spring snow with hard packed snow/ice, anyone have some more experience with the powerclaw in these conditions? How about coming downhill versus the stock polaris 5.1 track?

everyone I talk to with the powerclaw says it does great but the braking sucks. the camo extreme braking is great like a whole new sled

 

[gerrman]

Nelson... Whaaaaaattt????????

Since I always like to learn.... how does a 3" pitch driver (bigger tooth and wider spacing between centers) work on a 2.86" pitch track???

This came up last season and according to Robbie at Avid and Bruce at Camoplast...not possible.

========================================================================

A 3" pitch driver has 3" between the base of the tooth at the rim of the driver (not the tip of the tooth)...

3" x 8 teeth = approx 24" circumference of the driver rim....
3" x 7 teeth = approx 21" circumference of the driver rim....
2.86" x 8 teeth = approx 22.8" circumference of the driver rim...

or in other words

Circumference / Pi = Diameter

3" pitch x 8 tooth.... 24/Pi = approx 7.64" diameter ... 3.82" from driveshaft center to inside surface of the track

3" pitch x 7 tooth.... 21/Pi = approx 6.68" diameter ... 3.34" from driveshaft center to inside surface of the track

2.86" pitch x 8 tooth.... 22.8/Pi = approx 7.25" diameter ... 3.625" from driveshaft center to inside surface of the track

A 3" pitch 8 tooth driver will push any given track about .195" closer to the tunnel than a 8 tooth, 2.86" pitch driver. If you add the extra 0.10" of a camo extreme 2.5" track.... mind you in the 3" pitch... you will decrease the tunnel clearance by more than 1/4" over the 2.4" polaris running the 8 tooth 2.86" pitch drivers. This is why the 7 tooth drivers are necessary.

The 3" x 7 tooth driver brings the inside surface of the track .28" closer (over 1/4") closer to the swing arm rub pads.

To answer your question (finally, because I had a brain fart in not reading your question carefully)

For the 2.25" track... on 3" pitch, 8 tooth drivers... an approximation... I'm assuming the Cat Power Claw is a single ply track.... the clearance would DECREASE by the .15" shorter lug PLUS the added radius of the 3" pitch, 8 tooth driver (.195")...

With this combo... there is about .045" Less clearance than the stock Dragon single ply 2.4"... wow... less clearance than the stock 2.4... Who da thunk it???

This is where a D&R comes in handy....

I wanted to figure this out anyway for a friend.

My brain hurts now... and I probably made some mistakes!!

MH.....Was thinking of doing Holz's Chaincase Drop (5/8") on my 09 163 Dragon this summer. I liked the way the 5.1 single ply performed for me this past season. No issues at all. As all the threads on this topic come up though, clearance for the track...stock or not... is the number one issue to improve. Will Holz's Chaincase Drop help the stock track perform better (more clearance/less drag/increase track speed) or is a guy wasting money and time?

 

[mountainhorse]

IMO... The HRP drop is a common sense positive addition to the IQ RMK sled... not too much drop but more than tripples the current track clearance.

IMO.. it will help with track speed using your current setup...especially in high moisture content snow.