handling question for the m-series

wyo

higher risers give a rider more leverage...nobody i have ever rode with lowers their bars for technical riding

we lower our bars to cruise trails and drink gibsons

maybe because of your height, you dont need as much leverage and thats why you wash out on sidehills but it physically harder to pull a machine on its side the lower you go...........maybe i need more clarification on what you meant

simmons gen 1s work well on my cat - tested them against stock and simmons turned easier on hard snow --all 4 riders noticed a difference
sold my air shocks and traded for old school coilovers --noticable improvement

plowing is unheard of for m sleds...maybe in new snow with no base....other than that i cant wait to see what it was....

A lot of good advice here. Sort out the set up and try what works best for you. I can say that the biggest adjustment that helped mine was putting more downforce on the front of the track. I just had to get some of the weight off of the skis >>>>.

So what did you do for more track down force.

Lowered the front of the skid to a lower hole. Hole has to be drilled but the support bracket has the spot for the hole >>>>.

scaredycat said:

wyo

higher risers give a rider more leverage...nobody i have ever rode with lowers their bars for technical riding

we lower our bars to cruise trails and drink gibsons

maybe because of your height, you dont need as much leverage and thats why you wash out on sidehills but it physically harder to pull a machine on its side the lower you go...........maybe i need more clarification on what you meant

simmons gen 1s work well on my cat - tested them against stock and simmons turned easier on hard snow --all 4 riders noticed a difference
sold my air shocks and traded for old school coilovers --noticable improvement

plowing is unheard of for m sleds...maybe in new snow with no base....other than that i cant wait to see what it was....

Click to expand...

This is off topic but I hope it helps.

Your missing out, I though the same thing until I got a newer sled and raised the bars to 5" instead of 4" like the last one. I couldn't ride it to save my arse. So I thought about it and noticed I wasn't able to use my whole body as leverage because the bars where so high, So I cut it down 3 times, now under 4" and I am prob going to change to an adjustable to go lower, the lower I go the more technical I can get. Heres the defining factor, When the bars are up high and you are sidehilling some nasty stuff through trees and humps and bumps the sled will want to wash out and point up hill, If you have tall bars you will be pulling the sled more up hill as you are hanging on the bars, If the bars are all the way down you can still get up on top of it and add weight to bring the front down and continue sidehilling, its the kind of riding that the bars come to you and if they are already to you and come up then your just hanging on instead of being in control. Also lets say you are on a slight slope that you want to side hill but he sled is leaning the other way, with taller bars it puts the handle bars that much further down hill, thus giving the sled more leverage over you (it goes both ways) Or if you are side hilling and catch a bump and it tries to roll back down hill, with the bars low they will move very little, with the bars up 4-5" its going to toss your arse over the other side unless you have long arms like me and a lot of weight in your boots to bring it back. Hope this makes sense. Finally you don't need leverage to pull these M's over I can do it sitting down, you use only steering/counter steer and throttle to sidehill. Let the sled do the work not you. Hope this makes sense. Go watch "schooled"

The simmons turn better on hard snow, they grab and stockers will push but thats about it. They also make it very hard steering because they grab so hard and can make it harder to counter steer to sidehill,

WyoBoy1000,
Everything you talked about is excatly right. I had a 5 inch riser on my 2010 m8 and had the same things when i encouter it.Hence now i need a new set up. One thing i noticed was the riser needs to be placed where you feel most comfortable. Some people like it staright up, others like it with a slight angle. I feel that having a very slight angle gives me more leverage and more control when pulling the sled over on a side hill.

For steep technical sidehilling and climbing I like them low, and for the trail when standing I like it so I have to reach down a bit, (about 3.75" up) and as far forward as I can get it, thinking of rebuilding it to put the bars 1-2" further forward.

scaredycat said:

wyo

higher risers give a rider more leverage...nobody i have ever rode with lowers their bars for technical riding

we lower our bars to cruise trails and drink gibsons

maybe because of your height, you dont need as much leverage and thats why you wash out on sidehills but it physically harder to pull a machine on its side the lower you go...........maybe i need more clarification on what you meant

Click to expand...

Here is how I think of it!

Picture a fence post in front of you that you want to pull over to sidehill it. You would never stand straight up reach out and lean your weight over to pull it over and lay it down, hangin on it like a monkey. You would bend your knees a bit like a compact Ninja or NFL football player and reach down and out and hang all your weight hard on it with control. Try it, pull it over! without lookin like spazz!

Lower much lower than standing tall. Your lowering your center of gravity and being more balanced on your feet. Right?

Set the bars low and you can climb and ride on steeper stuff with more confidence and control.

Yep definitely agree on the low bars. May take some getting used to because it is new but the lower you can get them the more leverage you will have.

As far as learning to ride the M-series it definitely is a new animal. Every time I got on one off my 1m I thought the same thing but after spending a full day on it I got the hang of it. If you are trying to turn the sled with the bars you are going to fight it all day. M sleds want to be on their side so counter steer to lay the sled over and use the roll of the sled to make your turns. Its like riding a bike if you try turning the bars the direction you want to go you will just fight it all day long but turn the other way and lean it over a bit and you are good to go. Just keep working with it eventually you will look back and wonder what you were thinking. I climbed back on my 1m one time last year while my sled was down and it was so hard to ride. I was so beat at the end of the day I didnt even ride it again the next 3 weeks I just sat home and waited for parts haha.

so what im getting out of you guys is that you dont necessarily ride sidehills with your risers set on the lowest setting but you want to be more in a crouched or hunched over position.....

Look at pic (its not much of one) the higher the bars the further down hill it puts your weight, and the more leverage the sled has over you. Now with that, it really doesnt make any difference to me as long as I have to bend over a little it works, ie the tail bars don't effect me much because I use counter steering and skill to sidehill.

Where the low bars play a big role for me is in the steep. So I don't pull the sled into more of a wheelie (second pic) I would just be hanging on upside down practically. Also When sidehilling if it washes out, with high bars you can't get your weight onto the nose, you will just hang off the bars pulling the nose further up hill, with low bars you can shift your weight to the front and point the nose back down hill, This is the kind of sidehilling where the bars come to you.

For example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExHM0OTTzVs

watch this at 25 sec in, see it wash out and then continue, hell watch the whole thing, and think if you had taller bars. main point is you want your weight as centered as possible to you can move with the sled and control it.

The last thing I think of when riding like this is where I want my bars to drink a brew. I never drink and ride, unless its on the way out.