XP big bores - lets compare

[GRAHAM]

i think good fuel is like cheap insurance. i drive a hummer not a prius ,the extra cost of fuel is not a concern of mine. besides i like the smell of octane in the mornin!!! Lol. also bob's trigstad is FAST!!! faster than mine but there might be somethin different under that base gasket??? It aint stock, thats for sure!!!

 

[BIG JOHN]

Don't know. I had my dealer install the BB. Rode the sled stock the first weekend as we were waiting for parts...the sled was awesome. Put BB in and it was so so. Hmmm...needs clutching....spent the next 6 weekends trying every clutch set-up under the sun. Hmmm where's it supposed to run? Dealer says 8300, Ralphy says 8000. Hmmm.sled won't pull over 7900. "Oh well, everyone else runs the Crankshop pipe and MBRP. The THING can won't work". So I buy the pipe and MBRP....already had the Y-pipe. Spend the next 5 weekends trying more clutching. Getting beat by stock 05 Rev 151's. Get tips from Brotha Nos and others about what they run....buy and try that...same deal. I have had help from DJ, BJ, WinterBrew, Brotha Nos, Eyiebob and many others....and really I am thankful that there are people out there totally not connected to my project who are willing to help....but none of it worked. Had it back to the dealer 3 times to check RAVEs, air leaks, carbs, ECMs, etc, etc....nothing wrong. So....now its parked for the season. Know what? its to the point where I am almost ready to quit sledding....seriously.[/QUOTE]


call me...send me that top end...SHR will keep you in the sport...BJ

 

[BIG JOHN]

Ok guys, I too am dealing with the hit and miss performance of these XP's. I dont have a big bore...just a head and some other work. I have a couple questions, not bashing, not taunting or anything bad. I just want to know how in the hell a NA 860 can beat an 800 on 10psi with fuel?? Are the turbo setups that bad??

BJ- I honestly dont know...I believe its the same thing..a GOOD running BB XP can run with a PGTM8 or similar...now take an exceptional running TM8 or similar and its no contest...I have seen MY 860 beat 2 PGTM8 and PGTD8 so it happens

Because we are just getting a 600 xp turbo to run about right and it is tested side by side with a badass running trigsdad 860. With Identicle tracks, 600 on 10 psi there is absolutely no comparison. NONE. The 600 will murder the 860 no questions asked. It runs a strong 15 mph more track speed and climbs things not possible on the 860.

BJ- Thats great...again a well tuned turbo "should" beat a NA sled...

So how is it that sum 860's run far better than seemingly possible while others run like stockers?? It doesnt make any sense.

BJ- All sleds have good days and bad days...860/880 kits are still hurt by DOO electronics/tuner etc...

As for OT knowing anything about anything...thats a whole 'nuther story-LOL-BJ

 

[gus bohne]

Well, One MAJOR issue BRP will NOT discuss about the xp's is electronics !

When the 09 xp snoxers were deliverd to me prior to Duluth, I noticed right off that they WOULD NOT pull the 08 clutchs ???

Marcel assured me I was a bad tuner,,,lol ..I then informed him the pipe was longer at diffuser 2 and the timing was 3-4 + from 08..

YOU ARE INCORRECT !

That was November,,
March,25 2009. BRP racer e mail, Timing on 09 stockers is off by +4 and on Mod boxs Off by +5-7..

They are getting a very nice,, no foul language fairwell from our teams..
John,
I brought BRP 12 class championships in the RMR series and 2 ISOC national pro wins this season without so much as a thank you..

and their 3 foot tall nepoleon's..lol can kiss my arse..


off the rant..

A pump gas low low comp turbo is only producing about the same power as most big bores..MOST that is.

just because it has a turbo does not mean it is a brute, just another way of gettin to the same place..per say.


Gus

 

[trinitypowder]

I had my SHR860 out in the heavy wet snow of Vail, CO yesterday. This thing is a stump puller! Climbs like a mutha! 6-700 foot climbs with 8250rpm at the bottom of the hill and 8250rpm at the top of the hill. Big John builds a torquey motor boys. Rode with a guy yesterday that has a Trygstad 880, no airbox/dpm, crankshop twins, but she was brand new, so no side by side comparison. I'm pretty sure he would get me, but I don't think it would be by much. All I know is this; I have never went head to head with a turbo. But, I have gone head to head with 3 different M1000's in the Snowies. All 3 where 162's, and two had boxes and singles. The heaviest guy was 180lbs. My sled has a 15x156 2.5 Camo and I weigh 240lbs. On Sugarloaf Mtn-400 foot and 45 degrees with about 18" of fresh, I won every round no problem. I know it might not seem logical, but Big Johns motor loves to be loaded on a climb and showed the M's how it's done. It was worth every penny.

 

[Original Tetonice]

BJ-All sleds have good days and bad days....860/880 kits are still hurt by Doo electronics/tuner etc... .....LOL BJ that an encouraging sales pitch

Here's a few extra hints if you want your bigbore to run good everyday.......

1. Pump Fuel BigBores runs the least consistant from 1 day to the next. Yah they be can strong but will always have the least contistant performance for every mile the track spins. The trouble with running race gas is most guys wont spend the extra $$$ and the mod motor builders know this. So the builder often times will builds motors that knowingly due to the "pump fuel" will Have Good Days And Bad Days

As i've mentioned before Air + Fuel = HP. Starting running race gas thats what these mod motors require to run strong,consistant and reliable all day long. If you want to run pump gas keep your motor stock.... It will at leat run good every day !!!!!! LOL... Come on you guys you just spent the money on a mod motor and you want to believe because some guy tells you so the "All sleds have good days and bad days" is a flipping joke......Think about people why in th world would you run pump gas in you BigBore? Think about your bigbore as a race motor....Woud you go to the race track running pump gas against others who are running race gas ?

860/880 kits are still hurt by Doo electronics , i agree to an extent however every manufacture has electronics and electronics is nothing new to Doo.....The HAC, MPM, MPEM, DPM have always been there it's not that big of a deal.....BJ, If your going to nose bleed about Doo electronics than you must really must be bleeding when you attempt to work on a turbo. Do you still think you can have a turdo Doo up and running in a 1/2 a day or 6 hours? LOL

Trigstad Motors are the motor the other guys try to beat, Just ask BJ he knows it.


RUN FAST GAS

OT

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

I once heard that trygstad Bb ran MONSTER jets. Anyone know?

 

[byeatts]

I once heard that trygstad Bb ran MONSTER jets. Anyone know?

I run 540,s,in the Trigstad. Graham,s new Engine Tech 860 is also setup with 540 and runs very well. Egt,s are dead on and will take just a few minor adjustments after breakin. California Oxegenated fuel is a factor though,More air/more fuel =more HP

 

[Original Tetonice]

I once heard that trygstad Bb ran MONSTER jets. Anyone know?

BigBore love fuel thats how they make power. As for the Trigstad in our 08 1 full step over stock works for the elevations i ride. The needle tapper should also not be over looked. Running the correct needle and clip position in your bigbore is just as important as your main jetting imo.


OT

 

[trinitypowder]

what pipe/pipes are those sleds with the 540's running?

 

[turboal]

it is not just bb that we have seen issues with on the xp chassi's
most common complaint that i have been asked about this season
[ my xp wont pull over 7900 ]
well there is a list of reasons and we still havent seen all the reasons yet

one area of suspect is one we cant see and what makes me wonder about it is that we saw it on polaris sleds at times .
the water temp sensor..there isnt anything that tells you it is bad, if it is out of calibration the timing is effected.

the fuel pump mentioned is another that was mentiioned earlier
that is the first i heard of that one but makes good sence.

as well the one way check valves on the pressure side and vaccum side of oporating the power valves .

what symptom do they present ?
how do you know as visually watching the power valves they still move when the system isnt working electronically.

talk about wasting quantium time on finding what is at the root of these type of complaints .eventually it will have a pattern to it but easily is the worst problem we have seen delivered and left the dealers stumpped.

Dave you know the issues Jack has had on his new 09
could give you a list of over 100 customers that share in his type of stock problem.


the hard parts arent the problem in yor bb issues
you have a set of over bored jugs
2 new pistons and a head to match
there isnt likely an issue in these components

the running control , likely.

all the guys that build bb arent the issue.

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

Im guessing doo has either never heard of this or denies all aspects of it?

 

[DaveB]

I hears ya Al. I am firmly convinced that there is something in the ECM itself holding it back. My dealer and his #1 Tech think the same....it's just impossible to prove. I know they tried a different ECM on Jack's and that wasn't the problem. His ended up being the one-way valves leaking. I have elliminated this as a source of problem thanks to Byeatts....but I am out of season. Will have to continue next year. Boy....that's gonna be nice to look forward to: start my 09/10 season bye STILL working on a brand-new sled. LOL.....maybe I'll get lucky and my garage will burn down while I'm out camping this summer....

 

[superdoo]

.

we have (had) 2 rk tek 860, and we might as well each took 2 grand and threw it out the window (sleds would barely beat a stock 800). terrible customer service. snotty attitude, and absolutely no help in trying to get them to run better. thought i did my homework, but i guess there is a sucker born every minute, i believed the hype! i would go with mott's or split second. just pick someone close, so if you do have problems, you can hopefully get them rectified quickly. our other 860 is finally starting to run stronger, after much time and more money was put into it.

just my .02, but as you can tell, i am still a little ticked. and i don't even own the sled anymore!

Get a Grip and Rip!

for every good there is always a bad
my main riding buddy's RK 860 hasn't missed a beat and he spanks us all over. from what I have seen of his kit, I'd hit it.

 

[jdog]

big bore jetting

I run 560 mains and o7 needles in middle position on Trigstad 860.

 

[Original Tetonice]

Im guessing doo has either never heard of this or denies all aspects of it?

I don't think Doo denies anything...Unless you want to believe the "Doo Race Team" along with X,Y and Z race teams don't bigbore ALL there race sleds ?

The Doo motor just like the Polaris & Cat 2 strokes all have an engineering envelope to tune/mod within. Going beyond is a No No.... The Cat motor imo adapt the best of the 3 brands.

How's about a Dale Cutlers Cat 1000 or 1200 bigbore in an XP. ?

OT

 

[triple7]

Well, I came to the same conclustion as everyone else has early last year. I thought the ECM was basically limiting the output of the motor. BJ, I think I talked to you a bit about this last year. At that point you were not aware of anybody that could reprogram the ecm. So, I found a dude that could. I now have a single curve, it doesnt back timing out for water temp, knock, or anything else. I eliminated the inconsistency of the electronics...same friggen inconsistent sled. When it runs, it really rocks. However, its a hit and miss deal.

OT, I run full race mod motocross bikes and I show up at the races with pump gas...It has never had a negative impact on my room of trophies.
Why are snowmobiles so different?? Higher octane fuel DOES NOT build more power. Octane is the fuels resistance detonation. If you dont have a deto issue, you dont need better fuel. Agreed??

 

[byeatts]

what pipe/pipes are those sleds with the 540's running?

Aaen single with very large stinger..My understanding on this pipe is that it was designed around the 860 BB

 

[longhairfreak]

Well, I came to the same conclustion as everyone else has early last year. I thought the ECM was basically limiting the output of the motor. BJ, I think I talked to you a bit about this last year. At that point you were not aware of anybody that could reprogram the ecm. So, I found a dude that could. I now have a single curve, it doesnt back timing out for water temp, knock, or anything else. I eliminated the inconsistency of the electronics...same friggen inconsistent sled. When it runs, it really rocks. However, its a hit and miss deal.

OT, I run full race mod motocross bikes and I show up at the races with pump gas...It has never had a negative impact on my room of trophies.
Why are snowmobiles so different?? Higher octane fuel DOES NOT build more power. Octane is the fuels resistance detonation. If you dont have a deto issue, you dont need better fuel. Agreed??

Snowmobiles run higher compression and have larger pistons. The larger the piston the more prone it is to detonation. Good fuel is cheap insurance but to much is not good. You need to find the right blend.

 

[Original Tetonice]

ditto two what longhaired freak said regarding blend........

Race fuel isn't all about high octane.....race fuel comes in a wide range of octane and is produced "clean" and "specific" to match the compression of your mod motor.

vpracefuel.com happens to be a good place to learn about the benefits of race fuel in mod motors.

OT