very disappointed in you arctic cat guys

[CatRpillar]

Ah, good ol' engineering bashing! Lol Not going to defend it as I can point out some real doozies from all groups. I've seen a lot more good than bad though from everyone, and like this cat, I like to focus on making it better. Guess I should call one of you guys to put the pc back together if I'm that impractical though!

 

[m8magicandmystery]

Ah, good ol' engineering bashing! Lol Not going to defend it as I can point out some real doozies from all groups. I've seen a lot more good than bad though from everyone, and like this cat, I like to focus on making it better. Guess I should call one of you guys to put the pc back together if I'm that impractical though!

oh i am certain that your one of those very capable ones...!!!!...i certainly would not want the challange of proving otherwise...lol...

 

[m8magicandmystery]

oh i am certain that your one of those very capable ones...!!!!...i certainly would not want the challange of proving otherwise...lol...

willikers...thats some political brown nosing eh....im in the wrong vocation...lol..

 

[CatRpillar]

oh i am certain that your one of those very capable ones...!!!!...i certainly would not want the challange of proving otherwise...lol...

I dunno - everytime I look at this cat I fear riding something I put back together!

Just noticed you have ten more rep points then me so I pay my respects back to you! How freaking weird is that - usually dont pay that any mind but we're ten pts apart in 21 million!

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Thx wyo - I work with tons of craftsmen, my dad was a B pressure welder and my brother is tool and die. I have a lot of respect for them, its unfortunate that it sounds like you have never experienced what a partnership of engineers, technologists and craftspeople can achieve. Give it a try sometime.

You should, there not engineers are they.

You can say what you want and bring all the papers and bs you want, its like dyno racing. It don't mean chit and I have proof you can't argue.
The arguing fact being the M is more capable at some things than the PC when the PC should do everything the M does and all the thing the PC currently does really well added together. Not give up some to gain some.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

I dunno - everytime I look at this cat I fear riding something I put back together!

Just noticed you have ten more rep points then me so I pay my respects back to you! How freaking weird is that - usually dont pay that any mind but we're ten pts apart in 21 million!

WyoBoy AKSNORIDER..is the same as us..lol..this forum has the points very similair...you don;t see the real number until ya get into your cp section..

 

[rmscustom]

Wow, this thread has a little bit of everything... Did you know my Hoyt is way better than your Mathews?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Ah, good ol' engineering bashing! Lol Not going to defend it as I can point out some real doozies from all groups. I've seen a lot more good than bad though from everyone, and like this cat, I like to focus on making it better. Guess I should call one of you guys to put the pc back together if I'm that impractical though!

WTF

you already forget what we are discussing, like I said "Denial"
You guys would rather argue with me than come to conclusion that you should try it before you bash it and since I did and know the outcome and can say, Its better this way, and I understand all your concerns, trust me. (or don't but you don't know, I do)
But nope, that wyo guy is just full of himself, even though he chopped apart a steering bell before you could even order one if he needed a replacement. But miraculously without an engineer he re engineered a steering bell than increased steering radius beyond cats wildest dreams without a cam over effect to boot. WOW, he must of really f'd that one up and got lucky, you know since he's so dam full of it, its all luck.

Then he chopped apart a $12k sled, running boards right of the MFer and welded some skinny ones together and put them on, now it will sidehill with a M, and pro not like the PC. Oh, without an engineer too, dam he is one lucky feller to keep getting lucky and building an improved chassis with better foot well cleanout and better standing traction.

Then to add the lowering of the bars, total failure there, and once the sled will sidehill they have to go down or the bars will push you off the sled and force your weight to far back in a uphill sidehill. must of got luck there too, chopping and working out just perfect.

My first comment to engineers is "sign here" so everyone knows I suggested we do it this way so when there is a change order and you are paying me twice we know why. (I'll bet Bret R wishes he did the same)

But yes if I'm going to spec out my fab work for duplication, I'll call you, then build one from spec and then proceed. I need a engineer for that, I don't need one telling me what right, wrong, how to, what to etc....
I have real world results already, thats a fact. Oh wait, I mean I'm just the luckiest guy on a sled.
When you put together your light weight sled, do you think I'm going to say, you don't know, why change it it was fine before, cat will fix it. HeII no, I'm going to say nice work, I'll take your word for it because YOU did it, not me.
BTW, havent heard anything on that lately, any updates. (that part was serious)

 

[arctic2009]

I was talking about your statement about your buddy with a E D problem, (couldn't keep it up) but you guys are so stuck on your broken record statement you can't take a joke.

My mistake wyo, I do have to admit though that gave me a good laugh.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

WyoBoy AKSNORIDER..is the same as us..lol..this forum has the points very similair...you don;t see the real number until ya get into your cp section..

Wtf are points, ??? I'm trying to stay even with snowmobiler, he's da man. or grandma or something. Go doo.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

My mistake wyo, I do have to admit though that gave me a good laugh.

Now everyone will be trying to figure out reading the wrong thread, lol

Heres to 5 full pages of complete BS thanks to the OP for giving us nothing to do about something in the summer, lmao.

 

[CatRpillar]

Now everyone will be trying to figure out reading the wrong thread, lol

Heres to 5 full pages of complete BS thanks to the OP for giving us nothing to do about something in the summer, lmao.

If you keep ranting it will soon be six.

Seriously man, I'm not dissing you, and I'm not disagreeing the thing won't out sidehill a Poo, and I'm not even arguing you can outride me or that none of your stuff will work, etc

I'm beyond that. Back to 50 posts ago, I'm wondering what hell the chassis differences are between a Poo and the PC. The angles, forces, overall geometry, cg, etc. And all I started wondering was if a PC could be one ski'd and show no funny balance issues on hard pack, how that would relate to sidehilling in powder and if the two were related. All I'm waiting for is 'I don't think it relates because, blah, blah, blah', or 'I think you have a good point because, yadda, yadda, yadda....'.

Before you know it engineers are the scurge of the earth and nobody else knows squat. Let's get back to the program.

For the record - and I'm not going back to see what I said in every previous thread to see if I'm being a hypocrite, I think you are one motivated and pretty smart dude - but you ain't the only motivated and smart dude (and I ain't counting me - lol) Let's think together - even if all I can offer is make believe and fairy dust.

Agree? I can't spend my whole day reading your posts praising me......

Oh, stay tuned on the weight loss update - was out of province and didn't do squat the last ten days.

 

[arctic2009]

Heres to the 5 dollar pitchers at the bar on a Sunday and now reading all these posts and not really caring about the PC or the pro with this nice buzz lol. All I want right now is some snow! or possibly another pitcher? What was the OP about anyway?

 

[94fordguy]

Wow, that was quite a read...

Suzuki laydown in a pro chassis is going to be quite a hack job.. I put together two polaris pros at the dealer yesterday and then put together an M800 and compared. It would be tough to keep the angle of the 800 in the pro bulkhead, since the pro bulkhead is made for a vertical motor, not horizontal/laydown.. whatever you prefer. Sure you can mod the bulkhead to fit the 800 suz. but will you get the angle right for the motor? Not to mention fitting the pipe inside the pro "A" frame.. Might as well just wait another year and see if polaris picks up suzuki since cat bought their shares back..haha.. A lot people around the area seem to think yamaha is going to buy cat, now wouldn't that be a **** show lol. At least if that happened it would give a lot of guys something else to bitch about for a while.

But good news everyone, I finally found a sled that is skinny enough for wyo and it doesn't have a polaris motor, or belt problems and super skinny running boards!

Here you go, the answer to all the problems!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--H9TvC9mKw

Im being completely and totally sarcastic about the link by the way, for everyone that can't take a joke.

Ok, honest question here....

If somebody wanted to put the suzuki engine in a Pro chassis, WHY would it need to stay laid back at the same extreme angle it is mounted in the Cat with? A 2 stroke motor will run completely upside down thanks to the wonders of Fuel Injection, not to mention the wide degree of angles it is subjected to on a normal days ride up and down the mountains... What difference does the mounting angle make to the motor/sled in anything other than the handling? Dragon motors were tipped quite a ways forward, Polaris 900 motors were slightly back from straight up, pro motors are straight up... What's the difference to a custom build as long as you get it aligned with the secondary???

 

[arctic2009]

Wow, that was quite a read...





Ok, honest question here....

If somebody wanted to put the suzuki engine in a Pro chassis, WHY would it need to stay laid back at the same extreme angle it is mounted in the Cat with? A 2 stroke motor will run completely upside down thanks to the wonders of Fuel Injection, not to mention the wide degree of angles it is subjected to on a normal days ride up and down the mountains... What difference does the mounting angle make to the motor/sled in anything other than the handling? Dragon motors were tipped quite a ways forward, Polaris 900 motors were slightly back from straight up, pro motors are straight up... What's the difference to a custom build as long as you get it aligned with the secondary???

The angle of the cylinders gave it more horsepower. Not sure why/how/etc. and the way the reed valves were located in the front of the crankcase. The laydown style also gave the snowmobile a lower centralized mass. But we talked a bit with spaulding at the 50th anniversary about the laydown motor and they put a ton of work into it to achieve that. It was pretty cool to see the prototypes of the laydown motor. It actually started out from an older cat 440 motor I believe. Also if the suz motor was tipped straight up and down like the poo motor, the boots for the injectors would be pointed towards the bottom of the bulkhead making it more of a pain to fit into a poo chassis. Putting the suz motor in a poo is possible.. anything is possible really but it would be quite the task.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

what happened to the wankel..(rotary)..willikers a fella was bringing that back to life a couple years back...A Canadian company is making a great rotary for marine applications etc..

 

[arctic2009]

what happened to the wankel..(rotary)..willikers a fella was bringing that back to life a couple years back...A Canadian company is making a great rotary for marine applications etc..

A car manufacturer was using rotary motors a while back, can't remember which one though. I have also been hearing about guys building magnetic motors. Using opposing magnets to mimic the force of the gas exploding pushing the piston down in the cylinder. Quite interesting actually.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

If you keep ranting it will soon be six.

Seriously man, I'm not dissing you, and I'm not disagreeing the thing won't out sidehill a Poo, and I'm not even arguing you can outride me or that none of your stuff will work, etc

I'm beyond that. Back to 50 posts ago, I'm wondering what hell the chassis differences are between a Poo and the PC. The angles, forces, overall geometry, cg, etc. And all I started wondering was if a PC could be one ski'd and show no funny balance issues on hard pack, how that would relate to sidehilling in powder and if the two were related. All I'm waiting for is 'I don't think it relates because, blah, blah, blah', or 'I think you have a good point because, yadda, yadda, yadda....'.

Before you know it engineers are the scurge of the earth and nobody else knows squat. Let's get back to the program.

For the record - and I'm not going back to see what I said in every previous thread to see if I'm being a hypocrite, I think you are one motivated and pretty smart dude - but you ain't the only motivated and smart dude (and I ain't counting me - lol) Let's think together - even if all I can offer is make believe and fairy dust.

Agree? I can't spend my whole day reading your posts praising me......

Oh, stay tuned on the weight loss update - was out of province and didn't do squat the last ten days.

I would agree but waiting until pg 10, tell then you suck. lol

I can't tell you specifics on geometry, but there are some things maybe you can makes sense of. I know there is a factor in the angle of the a arms on the pro that makes it respond. The cat also responds well but I don't like the big spindles, although some think they are a huge problem the truth is they rarely are. The only time its a problem is in stiff snow starting or carrying a down hill sidehill, if one sticks it will wip you around and probable roll, or stop dead. In soft snow, I say it would be hard to tell.
The Body, belly pans etc. have huge drag and even in soft snow I have notice its a huge limiting factor and once you go past one point the drag will steal the momentum where the pro or m will keep it.
Not only there but the skinny part is the biggest facter if the snow is not pure fluff and even out here where its dry those days are not that often. Trying to do a steep descent and sidehill is almost a for sure wash out or roll.
Now on to the skid, PC has a great skid setup and works really well. But there is a difference. The pro puts the track on the snow further forward, steeper approach angle. Which is contradictory to popular belief of getting on the snow. In reality approach angle is not as important as suspension setup. By putting the track down further forward it also balances the rider better for better transfer, the track is nearly hitting the ground under your feet where on the cat and doo your feet are between the ski and track. So there is a huge rider input factor with that kind of balance.
But the way poo did it it also puts more sq inches of track on the snow, a 155 pro puts down almost as much track on the snow as a 162 cat. We all know the difference in float from a 153 to 162 so you can imagine why a pro gets on the snow and float so well when a 163 pro is putting down as much track as a 174 cat or 162 doo.
The pro seat is narrow, now that I can sidehill steeper stuff the seat is in the way and when I lay it over the seat tries to push my leg off the board and does sometimes. The pro seat is for function, not so much looks.
Ski's, if that isn't obvious I can't help.
pro chassis = lite weight with function, its built and ready, thats what makes it better. to make the PC what it is even if different its going to cost lots of $$$$
Does that answer any questions, I bet not, because I've been arguing this for yrs now and only a few have opened there eyes enough to understand and say, holy chit that makes a lot of sense.
How do I know, comes back to "if they can do it I can do" first part, figuring out how its done. When you look at it that way you start to figure it out because your taking responsibility for your ability and sometimes the tools (sled) are important to do the job.
But I'm just lucky or full of it.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Putting the suz in a pro, if you remove the air box there is a ton of room to move the suz back because the air box is in the front, so IMO it looks like the suz will fit easy, absolutely no worries there. But I think the pipe will try and hit the chassis uprights, so it mod that or build a pipe. Thinking build a pipe is the answer. Wonder what the pro or doo pipe would do on the suz, it would prob fit.
It will also transfer the weight back and more central.
If money wasn't a factor I would be done and building kits if economical

 

[Daltech]

Putting the suz in a pro, if you remove the air box there is a ton of room to move the suz back because the air box is in the front, so IMO it looks like the suz will fit easy, absolutely no worries there. But I think the pipe will try and hit the chassis uprights, so it mod that or build a pipe. Thinking build a pipe is the answer. Wonder what the pro or doo pipe would do on the suz, it would prob fit.
It will also transfer the weight back and more central.
If money wasn't a factor I would be done and building kits if economical

Look at the 10-11 F8. That pipe lays forward as in the Poo and doo. That pipe would need just some adjustment to fit in the pro chassie.