question for those who clutched their D-8's

[macovial]

well..I started out with carls setup..62/42/.46 helix, stock springs and 2 delrins with belly buster weights for my elevations..still felt it was leaving some on the table so I went with slp's recommended setup for their pipe...still felt lacking so i did a mix and is what has performed best for me and my feel of what I want the sled to do..I run slp green/pink primary spring, 68 gram mtx weights with 2 grams in the tip 1 gram in the belly, (with .20 belt clearence in frnt clutch), secondary has 62/42/.46 helix, stock spring and 3 delrin washers..I clutch for 8300-8450 peak rpms with slp pipe(where I have found best performance on the hill)belt temps are low belts last and sled works very good in deep powder and really good on setup snow...you will have to experiment with what feels best for you..the single pipe seems to like more rpm then most run it at but the on hill performance is noticable with more rpms up to 8500...

How similar are the slp green/pink primary and the slp blue/pink primary springs?

I have both recommended setups and equipment (Carls and SLP) but no slp green/pink primary spring. Will I be able to get by with the blue/pink primary spring?

 

[theultrarider]

How similar are the slp green/pink primary and the slp blue/pink primary springs?

I have both recommended setups and equipment (Carls and SLP) but no slp green/pink primary spring. Will I be able to get by with the blue/pink primary spring?

The blue/pink is a 140/340 and the green/pink is a 160/340. What this means to you is that both springs will run the same max rpm and the green will engage a little higher than the blue will. That means that the green is snappier out of the hole. Some guys love this, others think it tends to trench too much. Most kits call for the blue. I personally run the green on my 800 edge mod and love it. The blue works and runs the same on top, but is sooo much more fun on the bottom with the green/pink. Try aksnowriders setup. I have ridden his sled and run mine against him. Hands down the best clutched d8 around our area.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

The blue/pink is a 140/340 and the green/pink is a 160/340. What this means to you is that both springs will run the same max rpm and the green will engage a little higher than the blue will. That means that the green is snappier out of the hole. Some guys love this, others think it tends to trench too much. Most kits call for the blue. I personally run the green on my 800 edge mod and love it. The blue works and runs the same on top, but is sooo much more fun on the bottom with the green/pink. Try aksnowriders setup. I have ridden his sled and run mine against him. Hands down the best clutched d8 around our area.

thanks tim, I went to the green/pink because I wasnt happy with the low end responce when in more setup snow..sled was perfect for champayne powder with the blue/pink unless you have to go from a dead stop/ very slow roll and turn uphill into a steep hard climb..it just felt like it wasnt getting track speed due to over loading the motor...the green pink fixes this perfectly..sled is always snappy with out being too much...

 

[Mag]

thanks tim, I went to the green/pink because I wasnt happy with the low end responce when in more setup snow..sled was perfect for champayne powder with the blue/pink unless you have to go from a dead stop/ very slow roll and turn uphill into a steep hard climb..it just felt like it wasnt getting track speed due to over loading the motor...the green pink fixes this perfectly..sled is always snappy with out being too much...

When it's not in the shop!


Sorry man I had too!

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

When it's not in the shop!


Sorry man I had too!

yea yea...If I could go whore myself to my dealer I would have a new sled every weekend too..lmao...story of my life...lol

 

[BROWNBEAR238]

Sprockets

Hey, i have heard that the 19/42 works good, but also that it isn't a big enough increase from stock? People claim to run the 19/45, but polaris supposedly says that could cause problems? Instead, if you want to run a 45 bottom, you gotta use a 20 top, not 19? But then they say a 19/46 is fine, and people say that works sweet too? I'm confused, what do you think? Remember, sled is stock.

 

[thefullmonte]

Hey, i have heard that the 19/42 works good, but also that it isn't a big enough increase from stock? People claim to run the 19/45, but polaris supposedly says that could cause problems? Instead, if you want to run a 45 bottom, you gotta use a 20 top, not 19? But then they say a 19/46 is fine, and people say that works sweet too? I'm confused, what do you think? Remember, sled is stock.

I'm guessing that 19/45 causes too much dog leg in the chain. Which is why you can do 19/46 or 20/45 to take up the slack. Good luck and keep us posted on how your setup works out.

 

[macovial]

The blue/pink is a 140/340 and the green/pink is a 160/340. What this means to you is that both springs will run the same max rpm and the green will engage a little higher than the blue will. That means that the green is snappier out of the hole. Some guys love this, others think it tends to trench too much. Most kits call for the blue. I personally run the green on my 800 edge mod and love it. The blue works and runs the same on top, but is sooo much more fun on the bottom with the green/pink. Try aksnowriders setup. I have ridden his sled and run mine against him. Hands down the best clutched d8 around our area.

Excellent information from theultrarider and aksnowrider.

I'm taking out the blue/pink and getting a green/pink because I notice a lag in throttle response and I like it to hit from the millisecond I press on the throttle. And I'm going to put in everything that aksnowrider has in his setup and I will let you guys know how it went for me after the snow hits this week and blankets the ground with fresh champagne powder.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Excellent information from theultrarider and aksnowrider.

I'm taking out the blue/pink and getting a green/pink because I notice a lag in throttle response and I like it to hit from the millisecond I press on the throttle. And I'm going to put in everything that aksnowrider has in his setup and I will let you guys know how it went for me after the snow hits this week and blankets the ground with fresh champagne powder.

thanks..if your going to buy a helix..go with a 60/40/.36..I actually feel overall in all snow conditions that it works better(will be a smidge less good in champayne powder but most probably wont be able to tell the difference anyway)especially if you run all stock motor....slp single really helps the motor pull the bigger helix...

 

[macovial]

thanks..if your going to buy a helix..go with a 60/40/.36..I actually feel overall in all snow conditions that it works better(will be a smidge less good in champayne powder but most probably wont be able to tell the difference anyway)especially if you run all stock motor....slp single really helps the motor pull the bigger helix...

I'm going to use the helix I bought last weekend at Carl's Cycle. I'll be using the 60-40.40 settings for Spring / late Spring rides and use the 62-42.40 settings for the Winter "champagne powder" rides. Both numbers are on the same helix.

If that doesn't work and doesn't respond quickly enough, I'll go find a .36 helix. Thanks for your input. I'm starting to understand how the numbers work for the helix, I think. If there is a website or somewhere on the internet that can outline the numbers/settings for the helix and explain what each number stands for and how it works, that would be very helpful.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I'm going to use the helix I bought last weekend at Carl's Cycle. I'll be using the 60-40.40 settings for Spring / late Spring rides and use the 62-42.40 settings for the Winter "champagne powder" rides. Both numbers are on the same helix.

If that doesn't work and doesn't respond quickly enough, I'll go find a .36 helix. Thanks for your input. I'm starting to understand how the numbers work for the helix, I think. If there is a website or somewhere on the internet that can outline the numbers/settings for the helix and explain what each number stands for and how it works, that would be very helpful.

basically..the first number(62) is the initial angle of the helix(from takeoff to about 15 mph track speed)second number(42) is final angle of helix(from about 15 mph track speed on up to full shift out) and the last(.36, .40, .46) is the length of the initial angle in inches(how long it is using that first angle before transition to the final angle)..steeper the angle(higher the number) the faster it up shifts...but the slower it back shifts, it is a fine balancing act...

 

[macovial]

basically..the first number(62) is the initial angle of the helix(from takeoff to about 15 mph track speed)second number(42) is final angle of helix(from about 15 mph track speed on up to full shift out) and the last(.36, .40, .46) is the length of the initial angle in inches(how long it is using that first angle before transition to the final angle)..steeper the angle(higher the number) the faster it up shifts...but the slower it back shifts, it is a fine balancing act...

Thanks for the explanation. So I'm assuming that the 60-40.40 will work just fine for spring rides? I'm going to put the blue/pink primary since it's already installed (green/pink as backup if the blue/pink doesn't cut it after I ride later this week.) and change back to stock secondary (black/purple to keep the clutch cool) and add 3 delrin washers and change the MTX weights from 71g to 69g using 1g on the tips.

You suggested I use a 60-40.36 but I have a 60/40.40. I like the idea of a quicker upshift and a slower backshift. It prevents my track from slipping when I'm riding hard downhill. With the difference between your suggested settings of .36 and what I have, a .40, I can "compensate" by using different springs and adding a third delrin washer and use lighter weights, right?

I will change the helix over to 62-42.40 when the snow is champagne, which is during December, Jan and Feb. That won't be an issue.

It is just that EVERY dealer, EVERY person I talk to about this has a DIFFERENT opinion and they all have the same sled and ride high and deep. I really want to understand the dynamics of the helix measurements and spring rates and weights so I will be able to solve those problems myself with different snow conditions and outside temperatures.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

Thanks for the explanation. So I'm assuming that the 60-40.40 will work just fine for spring rides? I'm going to put the blue/pink primary since it's already installed (green/pink as backup if the blue/pink doesn't cut it after I ride later this week.) and change back to stock secondary (black/purple to keep the clutch cool) and add 3 delrin washers and change the MTX weights from 71g to 69g using 1g on the tips.

You suggested I use a 60-40.36 but I have a 60/40.40. I like the idea of a quicker upshift and a slower backshift. It prevents my track from slipping when I'm riding hard downhill. With the difference between your suggested settings of .36 and what I have, a .40, I can "compensate" by using different springs and adding a third delrin washer and use lighter weights, right?

I will change the helix over to 62-42.40 when the snow is champagne, which is during December, Jan and Feb. That won't be an issue.

It is just that EVERY dealer, EVERY person I talk to about this has a DIFFERENT opinion and they all have the same sled and ride high and deep. I really want to understand the dynamics of the helix measurements and spring rates and weights so I will be able to solve those problems myself with different snow conditions and outside temperatures.

since you have the .40 helix..run it..I run the .46 helix cause I have it..when a buddy asked what I would run I said the 60/40/.36 so thats what he got..I have tried it and I do like it..(slightly more responsive but most wouldnt notice it at all and slightly less track speed in champayne powder(1-2 mph)..if you do swap things..keep everything the same other then adjusting rivit weight to keep rpms constant..if track speed or responce change then figure out what caused it then what you need to fix it...I try to load the motor as much as I can till I can feel it and see it hurt track speed(both midrange and topend) then I adjust weight to bring it back to the best ...feel is tougher and usually requires playing with spring pressures as well but its not hard...also watch alignment and belt heat..all hurt performance...

 

[theultrarider]

Thanks for the explanation. So I'm assuming that the 60-40.40 will work just fine for spring rides? I'm going to put the blue/pink primary since it's already installed (green/pink as backup if the blue/pink doesn't cut it after I ride later this week.) and change back to stock secondary (black/purple to keep the clutch cool) and add 3 delrin washers and change the MTX weights from 71g to 69g using 1g on the tips.

You suggested I use a 60-40.36 but I have a 60/40.40. I like the idea of a quicker upshift and a slower backshift. It prevents my track from slipping when I'm riding hard downhill. With the difference between your suggested settings of .36 and what I have, a .40, I can "compensate" by using different springs and adding a third delrin washer and use lighter weights, right?

I will change the helix over to 62-42.40 when the snow is champagne, which is during December, Jan and Feb. That won't be an issue.

It is just that EVERY dealer, EVERY person I talk to about this has a DIFFERENT opinion and they all have the same sled and ride high and deep. I really want to understand the dynamics of the helix measurements and spring rates and weights so I will be able to solve those problems myself with different snow conditions and outside temperatures.

I think you are misunderstanding what we refer to backshift as. It is not the abibility of the clutch to help slow you down coming down a hill. Alot of people think that is what backshift is. Backshift is the ability on the clutch to sense that you are going UP a hill and it is getting steeper and steeper, and will downshift, or BACKSHIFT into a lower gear per say thus keeping your rpms constant and at redline. I other words, if your sled is running right where you want it run, 8200 rmp for sake of example out in the deep snow in the flat swamps, great. Now, you hit a hill and you are turning your 8200 at the base, great! Now, as you head up, your rpm starts to drop, hill gets even steeper, and you are now down to 7500 and falling. This is an example of your sled not backshifting. This is usually caused by having too steep of a helix angle. Hope this makes sense to you.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I think you are misunderstanding what we refer to backshift as. It is not the abibility of the clutch to help slow you down coming down a hill. Alot of people think that is what backshift is. Backshift is the ability on the clutch to sense that you are going UP a hill and it is getting steeper and steeper, and will downshift, or BACKSHIFT into a lower gear per say thus keeping your rpms constant and at redline. I other words, if your sled is running right where you want it run, 8200 rmp for sake of example out in the deep snow in the flat swamps, great. Now, you hit a hill and you are turning your 8200 at the base, great! Now, as you head up, your rpm starts to drop, hill gets even steeper, and you are now down to 7500 and falling. This is an example of your sled not backshifting. This is usually caused by having too steep of a helix angle. Hope this makes sense to you.

besides too steep of a helix angle it can be the secondary binding(reason for delrin washers), or not enough secondary spring pressure, or even too much primary spring pressure...

 

[macovial]

I think you are misunderstanding what we refer to backshift as. It is not the abibility of the clutch to help slow you down coming down a hill. Alot of people think that is what backshift is. Backshift is the ability on the clutch to sense that you are going UP a hill and it is getting steeper and steeper, and will downshift, or BACKSHIFT into a lower gear per say thus keeping your rpms constant and at redline. I other words, if your sled is running right where you want it run, 8200 rmp for sake of example out in the deep snow in the flat swamps, great. Now, you hit a hill and you are turning your 8200 at the base, great! Now, as you head up, your rpm starts to drop, hill gets even steeper, and you are now down to 7500 and falling. This is an example of your sled not backshifting. This is usually caused by having too steep of a helix angle. Hope this makes sense to you. XXXXX AKSNOWRIDER besides too steep of a helix angle it can be the secondary binding(reason for delrin washers), or not enough secondary spring pressure, or even too much primary spring pressure...

I gotcha! I did misunderstand the definition of "backshifting" with the helix. Thanks for explaining it in layman terms. Same applies to AKSNOWRIDER. I was losing RPMs with the .46 helix. I set everything up (new helix, stock secondary, added delrin washers and used MTX weights with 1g tips) tonight in the garage and hopefully will have a chance to test ride it tomorrow afternoon or so with all the fresh snow. And yes, if there are any needed changes, I will change it little by little after that point on as AKSNOWRIDER recommended earlier. *thumbs up*

 

[gerrman]

Understanding the Helix

basically..the first number(62) is the initial angle of the helix(from takeoff to about 15 mph track speed)second number(42) is final angle of helix(from about 15 mph track speed on up to full shift out) and the last(.36, .40, .46) is the length of the initial angle in inches(how long it is using that first angle before transition to the final angle)..steeper the angle(higher the number) the faster it up shifts...but the slower it back shifts, it is a fine balancing act...

So do I have this right now. A 62/42 will backshift slower than a 60/42 or 62/40 and 60/40 realatively speaking. The .36, .40, .46 travel distance on the initial angle or time it stays at this angle would perhaps have a positive or negative affect on the possiblility of the track initially trenching or not? Which initial angle distance, .36, .40, .46 would affect this? Or am I still not quite understanding it?

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

So do I have this right now. A 62/42 will backshift slower than a 60/42 or 62/40 and 60/40 realatively speaking. The .36, .40, .46 travel distance on the initial angle or time it stays at this angle would perhaps have a positive or negative affect on the possiblility of the track initially trenching or not? Which initial angle distance, .36, .40, .46 would affect this? Or am I still not quite understanding it?

basically the steeper the number(62,42,58) will upshift quicker/backshift slower then (60,40,56)initial angle engagment distance(.36,.40,.46) determines how soon the initial angle is done(.36 shorter time then a .46), the differences are miniumal and most would never notice it at all...the steeper initial angle(say a 62 over a 56) will help prevent trenching, but may cause a bog right off engagment if not properly setup due to overloading the upshift(shifts so fast engine cant get into proper rpm range)....

 

[gerrman]

basically the steeper the number(62,42,58) will upshift quicker/backshift slower then (60,40,56)initial angle engagment distance(.36,.40,.46) determines how soon the initial angle is done(.36 shorter time then a .46), the differences are miniumal and most would never notice it at all...the steeper initial angle(say a 62 over a 56) will help prevent trenching, but may cause a bog right off engagment if not properly setup due to overloading the upshift(shifts so fast engine cant get into proper rpm range)....

Thanks AK, I am catching on now. Clutching is a Black Art and a lot of time all a person see is snow(white). Thanks and can not wait for the 2009 Dragon...bring on those M8's.

 

[Slay Team]

ttt