Breaking: BRP to acquire Great Wall Motor Austria
- Thread starter christopher
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Electric sleds coming all too soon to a BRP dealer near you
Sleds will likely be the last line any of the major manufactures tackle for electric because that line will be the hardest to implement. Polaris and Zero partnership announced EV (Electric Vehicle) in 5 lines in 5 years. I suspect sleds will be the last one and we'll see the UTV (done), ATV, Slingshot, Indian all have electric before the sleds. BRP will likely implement in the easiest lines first; wheeled lines. And then probably the personal watercraft.
ATV and UTV are a much better fit for EV than sleds. Range is still an issue on all lines, but there are some possible benefits of electric wheeled powersports like cheaper to power, less time and cost for maintenance, huge power and torque, quiet and all those can be valuable for certain users; farm/ranch and hunting come to mind. General trail riding would be good, too, but one would have to pick and choose your rides based on range. Won't satisfy range requirements for most trips. Once they have 60 - 80 mile range, like the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) ATV/UTV, they will start to become an option for more riders/drivers.
Some will prefer to keep ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) powersports because of the way they feel, sound and they like doing ICE maintenance (oil changes, clean air filter, diffs fluid, valve checks, etc.). Some riders will prefer electric because they don't like to do maintenance or they want the quiet (hunting or riding with family/kids and like to talk as they ride, etc.) or they just prefer the performance traits of electric. Some will end up liking both; like me. I have both gas and electric dirtbikes and I will always own both because are both super fun. Just very different riding experiences. I can appreciate both. I pick and choose which type I ride depending on the day. High speed or long rides, it's ICE. Super slow and tight single track, I might grab either. Rides with family/friends and kids, I might grab either, but usually grab the electric because we can talk as we ride down the trail.
I like that I can hop on the electric and rip a few laps around our few acre yard or on the rural highway in front of our house for 1 to 3 minutes without first warming up an ICE or putting it away without fully warming it up to get the condensation out of the exhaust/crankcase/oil. Just hop on, click on the key and whack throttle wide open within a few seconds.
My snowbike is a motorcross bike and so I get to rip around on ICE dirtbike all winter, too.
Pros and cons to both. All of them rip and are fun to ride. I don't get the people that are so firm on one side or the other. You'll get people that are so pro-electric they can no longer see why we love ICE bikes. And ICE riders that rag on electric, but have never ridden one to understand the torque and power delivery and so have no first hand experience on how fun it is to rip around on an electric (especially at 8,000 - 10,000 feet where we ride so no power loss from elevation).
As for sleds, though the first efforts from Taiga are pretty good, there is still a long way to go before an EV sled works for most riders and that all breaks down to range. The electric sleds have the power and performance. If it was a major manufacturer (polaris, brp, cat) it would be a well designed/sorted/existing chassis, handling would be a known factor, familiar, and proven. The electric powertrains are great for power, torque and keeping all that at elevation, similar to a boosted sled but power is immediate, but on the mountain line in deep snow, that range is going to be too little for most mountain riders that have fairly long trail runs to get into the good terrain or away from the crowds. Those that have a cabin and great terrain close buy and like to do shorter rides nearby would be a good use case.
The trail riding guys will find it even more challenging since they put on long distances and do big loops through multiple towns. Maybe when the day comes that every little rural bar and restaurant have chargers and plenty of them so a group of 10 guys can always charge 10 sleds when they pull in, but we are 10 - 20 years away from that.
Weight will be an issue (more for mountain sleds than trail/touring sleds). The more battery added to increase the range, the heavier they will be. Will likely take some battery tech breakthroughs to get range equal to one tank of gas and still have weight down in the same range where current ICE sleds are when fully fueled. In time that will come, but not there now. These first versions are in the ballpark, but before they are widely accepted, they will have to be at least equal in weight and equal in range.
I think it's good the major manufacturers are exploring all tech and likely offering both ICE and electric in their lines. Anything that can attract or keep more riders on ATV, UTV, dirtbike, snowmobiles/snowbikes, electric offroad vehicles (rock crawlers, jeeps, etc.), is a benefit as we'll have even more people with personal, vested interest in fighting to keep trails and access open, which I think is going to be the biggest concern in coming years and so we can use all the help we can get.
ATV and UTV are a much better fit for EV than sleds. Range is still an issue on all lines, but there are some possible benefits of electric wheeled powersports like cheaper to power, less time and cost for maintenance, huge power and torque, quiet and all those can be valuable for certain users; farm/ranch and hunting come to mind. General trail riding would be good, too, but one would have to pick and choose your rides based on range. Won't satisfy range requirements for most trips. Once they have 60 - 80 mile range, like the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) ATV/UTV, they will start to become an option for more riders/drivers.
Some will prefer to keep ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) powersports because of the way they feel, sound and they like doing ICE maintenance (oil changes, clean air filter, diffs fluid, valve checks, etc.). Some riders will prefer electric because they don't like to do maintenance or they want the quiet (hunting or riding with family/kids and like to talk as they ride, etc.) or they just prefer the performance traits of electric. Some will end up liking both; like me. I have both gas and electric dirtbikes and I will always own both because are both super fun. Just very different riding experiences. I can appreciate both. I pick and choose which type I ride depending on the day. High speed or long rides, it's ICE. Super slow and tight single track, I might grab either. Rides with family/friends and kids, I might grab either, but usually grab the electric because we can talk as we ride down the trail.
I like that I can hop on the electric and rip a few laps around our few acre yard or on the rural highway in front of our house for 1 to 3 minutes without first warming up an ICE or putting it away without fully warming it up to get the condensation out of the exhaust/crankcase/oil. Just hop on, click on the key and whack throttle wide open within a few seconds.
My snowbike is a motorcross bike and so I get to rip around on ICE dirtbike all winter, too.
Pros and cons to both. All of them rip and are fun to ride. I don't get the people that are so firm on one side or the other. You'll get people that are so pro-electric they can no longer see why we love ICE bikes. And ICE riders that rag on electric, but have never ridden one to understand the torque and power delivery and so have no first hand experience on how fun it is to rip around on an electric (especially at 8,000 - 10,000 feet where we ride so no power loss from elevation).
As for sleds, though the first efforts from Taiga are pretty good, there is still a long way to go before an EV sled works for most riders and that all breaks down to range. The electric sleds have the power and performance. If it was a major manufacturer (polaris, brp, cat) it would be a well designed/sorted/existing chassis, handling would be a known factor, familiar, and proven. The electric powertrains are great for power, torque and keeping all that at elevation, similar to a boosted sled but power is immediate, but on the mountain line in deep snow, that range is going to be too little for most mountain riders that have fairly long trail runs to get into the good terrain or away from the crowds. Those that have a cabin and great terrain close buy and like to do shorter rides nearby would be a good use case.
The trail riding guys will find it even more challenging since they put on long distances and do big loops through multiple towns. Maybe when the day comes that every little rural bar and restaurant have chargers and plenty of them so a group of 10 guys can always charge 10 sleds when they pull in, but we are 10 - 20 years away from that.
Weight will be an issue (more for mountain sleds than trail/touring sleds). The more battery added to increase the range, the heavier they will be. Will likely take some battery tech breakthroughs to get range equal to one tank of gas and still have weight down in the same range where current ICE sleds are when fully fueled. In time that will come, but not there now. These first versions are in the ballpark, but before they are widely accepted, they will have to be at least equal in weight and equal in range.
I think it's good the major manufacturers are exploring all tech and likely offering both ICE and electric in their lines. Anything that can attract or keep more riders on ATV, UTV, dirtbike, snowmobiles/snowbikes, electric offroad vehicles (rock crawlers, jeeps, etc.), is a benefit as we'll have even more people with personal, vested interest in fighting to keep trails and access open, which I think is going to be the biggest concern in coming years and so we can use all the help we can get.
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Infrastructure will be very far behind the EVs making them almost useless in most of the places people like to recreate. I think of the UP. The vast trail system with many small towns and resorts where it won't be economically feasible to get the power to have multiple charging stations. I'm not a civil engineer but I have few friends who are and when they are designing charging stations for EVs it takes a lot of juice, and the surrounding grid has to be adjusted to make it work and these places are in cities of 100k+ not the boondocks of MI or MT and WY.
Agreed. Like I mentioned, my guess is 10 to 20 years before the rural towns get built out in any serious way. I know some riders with cabins with great mountain riding right out their back door and they are going to give an electric sled a whirl to compare.
Certain mountain riding, with short trail runs to the good terrain, might be another workable use case. But most of our rides are 10 to 15 miles in to get to good terrain and away from the crowds so wouldn't leave much range after subtracting 20 to 30 miles for the ride in and out (Taiga estimates 80 miles of range on their own version of mountain sled). Once electric sleds are out in numbers and start hearing real world range and average ranges, people will be able to calculate of electric are even an option for their length rides.
Will be interesting as the tech rolls out, but like I said, expect all the wheeled travel lines and water sports lines to get electric versions before the snow travel lines.
Certain mountain riding, with short trail runs to the good terrain, might be another workable use case. But most of our rides are 10 to 15 miles in to get to good terrain and away from the crowds so wouldn't leave much range after subtracting 20 to 30 miles for the ride in and out (Taiga estimates 80 miles of range on their own version of mountain sled). Once electric sleds are out in numbers and start hearing real world range and average ranges, people will be able to calculate of electric are even an option for their length rides.
Will be interesting as the tech rolls out, but like I said, expect all the wheeled travel lines and water sports lines to get electric versions before the snow travel lines.
And yet
I can ABSOLUTELY see Electric Snowmobiles coming to Yellowstone as the "Best Available Technology"
I can ABSOLUTELY see Electric Snowmobiles coming to Yellowstone as the "Best Available Technology"
Yellowstone is an ideal use for them. Very low speed and limited distances and quiet. Ski resorts and certain shorter distance search and rescue are others. Very valuable to be able to slow down or pause and hear someone in distress or communicate with other searchers.
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The usual suspects will try to convince land managers that successful use in these market segments is evidence that the rest of us need to adopt e-sleds too.
ICE is an acronym for Internal Combustion Engine. I'll edit my first post for clarification.
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