2017 Axys 800, SLP pipe and can setup vs. stock, losing RPM in climb

[sledhed]

So as the title states:
2017 Axys 800, SLP pipe and can setup vs. stock, losing RPM in climb...
Details: Picked up 2017 Axys last spring, about 800 miles on it. Stock exhaust pipe.
Hit some spring climbs with varying snow conditions, sled held a strong 8100+ RPM all the way out the top. Sweet.
Month or so ago put an SLP pipe and can on my sled along with 66 gram weights custom ground to 65 grams. Everywhere I rode, seemed to work great, able to hit and maintain 8350+ but no long sustained full throttle climbs.
Last Thursday, same area as I rode last year stock where it pulled 8100 consistently, but it was colder and a bit more powdery (<32 degrees), now I have the SLP pipe and can on the sled with 65 gram weights, everything else stock. Long sustained climbs (probably 1000+ feet vertical elevation change), WFO, straight shot or partial sidehill, same result, as I crested the top and glanced at the tach, in the 7000s, as low as 7550 once.
Tempted to go back to stock and go ride there again... but technically we are in "shelter in place" now, and not supposed to do outdoor rec that might result in emergency services needing to be called... plus it is 2 hours plus drive from home.
Mileage on sled is now over 1100, thinking it might be a drive belt issue so next ride (if there is one) I will break in the spare, also possibilities are motor mounts (I should be able to check those myself?)... I really hate to go down the clutching road, been there done that with the 860 Carls Dragon and I was always chasing springs and weights and secondary springs...

Any more ideas?

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

I've experienced everything you mentioned on my '17 and "18. I've found the most productive fixes are to clean up the sheaves with a scotchbrite pad, break in the new belt, and change your secondary spring to the black/purple. The backshift is a little weeny with the stock black secondary spring and the straight 40, a little more squeeze with slightly more secondary tension should solve your problem. If the changes mentioned above don't get you where you want to be, run a couple grams lighter and rock and roll. I run all the above with 10-62's ground to 10-61's and can pull 8,050 Rpms to 11,300'. At 8,500'. it will hold 8,200 all day long. A lot of guy's try to run 1-64's and most all I've test rode fall on their face big-time resulting in 7,600 r's or less at +10,000'.

 

[sledhed]

I've experienced everything you mentioned on my '17 and "18. I've found the most productive fixes are to clean up the sheaves with a scotchbrite pad, break in the new belt, and change your secondary spring to the black/purple. The backshift is a little weeny with the stock black secondary spring and the straight 40, a little more squeeze with slightly more secondary tension should solve your problem. If the changes mentioned above don't get you where you want to be, run a couple grams lighter and rock and roll. I run all the above with 10-62's ground to 10-61's and can pull 8,050 Rpms to 11,300'. At 8,500'. it will hold 8,200 all day long. A lot of guy's try to run 1-64's and most all I've test rode fall on their face big-time resulting in 7,600 r's or less at +10,000'.

Good points, when I switched primary to go to e-start I did not scotch-brite it, and I have not hit my secondary in a while so I am sure it needs it too. Just seems crazy to go from stock and holding RPM great to SLP pipe and dropping that much, but pulling harder on the secondary I suppose means it needs to resist more, I ran the black-purple in the 860 Carls motor in my Dragon and ended up stepping it up to a gold-black if I recall correctly, but different helix there as well (66-42-46-ER). I have the black-purple I pulled out of there in good shape (not all collapsed), I could throw that in there, but I think I am going to start with clutch alignment check, scotchbrite and new belt...

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Good points, when I switched primary to go to e-start I did not scotch-brite it, and I have not hit my secondary in a while so I am sure it needs it too. Just seems crazy to go from stock and holding RPM great to SLP pipe and dropping that much, but pulling harder on the secondary I suppose means it needs to resist more, I ran the black-purple in the 860 Carls motor in my Dragon and ended up stepping it up to a gold-black if I recall correctly, but different helix there as well (66-42-46-ER). I have the black-purple I pulled out of there in good shape (not all collapsed), I could throw that in there, but I think I am going to start with clutch alignment check, scotchbrite and new belt...

slp pipe is a top end power pipe.

drop to 64-63 grams and you should be able to rev into the range where it actually helps.

if running adjustable weights then you want tip weight with the slp pipe.

 

[sledhed]

slp pipe is a top end power pipe.

drop to 64-63 grams and you should be able to rev into the range where it actually helps.

if running adjustable weights then you want tip weight with the slp pipe.

I was running the 10-64s before the pipe and holding RPM great... but that was 8100 with stock pipe so need more RPM now. I have a set of SLP magnum force weights I have not put in yet, running shaved 66's (65 grams) now.
But - I observed that at the beginning RPM seemed great / normal (so I wasn't looking), and climbs with less time at WFO it would pop right back to 8350 when needed, but in these climbs backing out wasn't an option if I wanted to make the top. Weather was such that I did not get a lot of runs in, visibility came and went very quickly.
So if clutch alignment / new belt / scotchbrite / check motor mounts doesn't get me back to where I want to be, then time to start the clutching game...

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I was running the 10-64s before the pipe and holding RPM great... but that was 8100 with stock pipe so need more RPM now. I have a set of SLP magnum force weights I have not put in yet, running shaved 66's (65 grams) now.
But - I observed that at the beginning RPM seemed great / normal (so I wasn't looking), and climbs with less time at WFO it would pop right back to 8350 when needed, but in these climbs backing out wasn't an option if I wanted to make the top. Weather was such that I did not get a lot of runs in, visibility came and went very quickly.
So if clutch alignment / new belt / scotchbrite / check motor mounts doesn't get me back to where I want to be, then time to start the clutching game...

don't discount a stretching EV cable.

we had a sled slowly need less and less weight.

then the cable broke and blaaahhhh.

swapped it and runs mint now.

 

[J270wsm]

But - I observed that at the beginning RPM seemed great / normal (so I wasn't looking), and climbs with less time at WFO it would pop right back to 8350 when needed, but in these climbs backing out wasn't an option if I wanted to make the top. Weather was such that I did not get a lot of runs in, visibility came and went very quickly.
So if clutch alignment / new belt / scotchbrite / check motor mounts doesn't get me back to where I want to be, then time to start the clutching game...

Cleaning everything up and changing motor mounts could help but I’d change the secondary spring.

I had this exact issue at the start of the yr. Sled( jaws pipe, Mbrp trail can) would hit and hold 8250 all day until I changed the track. After that it would hit 8250 for short bursts then drop to 78-7900 and some times it would even drop to 7600. I changed motor mounts, cleaned clutch sheaves and checked alignment, dropped down from the stock 10-64’s to 10-62’s all with the hope it would help. Nothing changed. Did some more reading on here and installed a new secondary( EPI blue spring 160/280 ) and my sled is back to 8250 all day.

 

[sledhed]

don't discount a stretching EV cable.

we had a sled slowly need less and less weight.

then the cable broke and blaaahhhh.

swapped it and runs mint now.

Is there a way to adjust it? and how many hours / miles before that issue showed up? I thought the electronic controls (maybe) could detect that but I suppose not.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Is there a way to adjust it? and how many hours / miles before that issue showed up? I thought the electronic controls (maybe) could detect that but I suppose not.

sled had no codes thrown.
1800 miles = issues
2k miles snapped.

Heard of sleds with as low as 250 miles breaking them.

non adjustable.
(only $45)

we carry a spare in the group.

ecu has no way of knowing if it’s stretched

 

[Griff]

sled had no codes thrown.
1800 miles = issues
2k miles snapped.

Heard of sleds with as low as 250 miles breaking them.

non adjustable.
(only $45)

we carry a spare in the group.

ecu has no way of knowing if it’s stretched

Make sure you have a nearly new or good belt on the sled. A worn, glazed, narrow belt won't work.

 

[sledhed]

sled had no codes thrown.
1800 miles = issues
2k miles snapped.

Heard of sleds with as low as 250 miles breaking them.

non adjustable.
(only $45)

we carry a spare in the group.

ecu has no way of knowing if it’s stretched

That will be on my list of things to try for sure. And in any case won't hurt to have a spare along.

 

[sledhed]

Update: Put the spare belt on (yes it has been washed, and rode it enough to break it in the previous weekend) and never dropped below 8100, same riding area... better. Spring snow conditions can be harder on RPM, riding buddy was down some too, and this happens every spring of course... so for now I will take it. Yesterday was white concrete in most areas with 2-3 inches fresh and could hit 8300+ but hold on for a hard launch LOL. Social distancing the Polaris way is great...

 

[TRS]

One thing you mentioned was a new primary for e start?
Did you check the belt to sheave measurement? Also are you using stock belts or an aftermarket?

 

[sledhed]

One thing you mentioned was a new primary for e start?
Did you check the belt to sheave measurement? Also are you using stock belts or an aftermarket?

Stock belts... I did not check sheave to belt measurement... also need to recheck alignment...

 

[Murph]

Stock belts... I did not check sheave to belt measurement... also need to recheck alignment...

When I swith between me E-start vs Non-Estart clutches, I have to change the offset washers significantly on the jackshaft behind secondary.

 

[sledhed]

When I swith between me E-start vs Non-Estart clutches, I have to change the offset washers significantly on the jackshaft behind secondary.

Thanks Murph, funny you would mention that, I had read that somewhere on snowest (I love snowest, facebook is JUNK for finding good info)... so I had the mechanic at the dealer throw their alignment tool on there (a while back now, before the RPM drop issue made itself known) and we eyeballed the result and figured out we needed to move the secondary outward a bit (forget how much, one thick shim I think) and added more washers under the bolt to allow more float as well. I need to take it back in and see how close we came, since we were eyeballing... this time I would probably buy an assortment of washers from the parts department, loosen the bolt and adjust it up on the spot if they will give me 10 minutes with their alignment tool (I think they would, they know me fairly well).

 

[Murph]

Contact TRS (Tony) here on SnoWest. Buy one of his alignment bars. I have OEM Polaris one for the Axys800. The witness marks on the belt show that the OEM alignment bar (or at least how it is built) doesn't align the clutches correctly. I use the TRS bar on my 800.

When you have the bar in your garage/ shop, you are far more likely to check alignment frequently which is key to belt life.

 

[Teth-Air]

When you change the secondary spring also consider adding a roller bearing. As you climb, friction in the secondary will resist the backshift. Minimize this friction and it will shift easier to adjust for rpm loss.

Polaris Team Secondary Roller Bearing Kit

Speeds back-shift and up-shift by reducing friction. Fits all TSS-04 Secondary Clutches, RMK, Assault, Rush - Most Modern Model Years

www.sourceinnovations.ca

 

[sledhed]

When you change the secondary spring also consider adding a roller bearing. As you climb, friction in the secondary will resist the backshift. Minimize this friction and it will shift easier to adjust for rpm loss.

Polaris Team Secondary Roller Bearing Kit

Speeds back-shift and up-shift by reducing friction. Fits all TSS-04 Secondary Clutches, RMK, Assault, Rush - Most Modern Model Years

www.sourceinnovations.ca

Good idea, lots of guys like these but they do load a little more tension on the spring by virtue of the thickness added IIRC

Contact TRS (Tony) here on SnoWest. Buy one of his alignment bars. I have OEM Polaris one for the Axys800. The witness marks on the belt show that the OEM alignment bar (or at least how it is built) doesn't align the clutches correctly. I use the TRS bar on my 800.

When you have the bar in your garage/ shop, you are far more likely to check alignment frequently which is key to belt life.

But once you are aligned you should be good to go right? Unless you change something major like the primary or secondary or perhaps the motor mounts... So you are saying the "official" alignment bar from Polaris is basically junk? When they pulled it out to use it on my sled (one-shot eyeball alignment basically) it did look like something recycled from an old truck leaf spring or something...

As mentioned above the new belt got me back up to 8100+ and it is now looking like we might only have a couple rides left so I am probably not going to mess with it any further. I did pick up a set of the magnum force adjustable clutch weights but haven't put them in yet, would be nice to be able to adjust on the hill if it gets really bad / low RPM. Also since it is spring riding, considering the Gates C12 Carbon belt, but again alignment is critical.

Also want to pick up a Team secondary compressor tool, any reommendations? I have done a little searching and seen some of the homemade setups guys came up with too, pretty cool, but not sure they would work well enough for me, just as soon spend a little more on something more professional and easy to work with.

 

[Reg2view]

SLP's sheave compressor does both poo primaries and TEAM secondary, FWIW, and is well fairly made, works for the average Joe.