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just got back from a good ride, about 10 guys with the mentioned sleds...most were stock or close, one 17 mc had a pipe, 165 850 stock, all the 18's and king cat were stock (factory sponsored demo rides, in utah, elevation 8-9 k, moderate terrain, snow in parking lot about 4" of heavy wet; up in hills about 12-14" fairly light; terrain moderate, no chutes due to avy conditions)...riders were all competent, just wanting to get a feel of the 18's....everyone loved the king cat power, and equally hated the weight, fastest sled uphill in the open, that was its best game, even our best rider couldn't see one in his garage, even though he had been thinking about it....drag races up moderate hill in 6-8" of medium heavy snow, about 350 yds, the 18 162 800 would pull the 16's and seventeens about 5 sled lengths for stock sleds with cans, the piped 17 mc about 2-3 lengths and the stock 850 about 3 lengths...anybody asleep at the start line would lose, if you lost a length at the start, no one could make it up.....i ride a 16 i bought at the end of the year good deal, belt drive, oil delete, ti can, my clutching (good), bdx boards, experienced rider, what i saw...18 has smooth engine, harder to pull over, but better tuning that started 1st pull, never saw anyone have to do more (3 18 800s, one 153, two 162s)...18 kept front end down better than 16s or 17s...in trees the 18s maneuvered about the same as the mc's, but had better mid range power, noticeably so....there was a smoothness in the 18s, engine, clutching, and turn entry, rolling it on its side etc....doo guy liked it big time...rolling it on its side was noticeably more consistent and easier than 16 or 17s, and you could get it further over on its side before losing the track and washing out...clutching was good, engagement about 32-3400, one of the 162s maybe had lighter weights, over revving on the top and not pulling the mid-range as hard, didn't ask the rep, as everyone has their preferences...i ride with a lot of guys and sleds, don't have one particular brand tattooed anywhere on my body and could buy anything that i saw as an advantage to me...i still don't care for the doo handling, but it's a good machine....despite poo guys claim to being the best handling, flickable, etc....the 16 and newer cats get my vote for best tree sled, have the best engine (doo guys could argue that, maybe), the new cat engine gets it done the best (hopefully is as dependable as the suki), it's a smooth runner for sure....with several guys never giving the 18s a rest, i never smelled a belt getting hot, looked inside once, the clutches were warm as expected, but not hot....overall good sled, now just wait to see the choices for snocheck....