XP big bores - lets compare

deaner · Mar 2, 2009

Hey guys. Thinking about doing a big bore on my XP. Just wondering what the main differences are between the different options out there. And what your opinion of the "best" one out there. Also any real world comparisons would be great. Do they all use the same pistons? Claimed HP?

Options:

Big John 860
RKT 860
Turbo Al 888
Split Second 860
Motts machining 880
Engine Tech 860

Im thinking either Engine Tech because Ive heard good things about Art. One thing that concerns me is that he is from out east. Not sure if he does any testing in the mountains or not. Either that or Split Second. Ive never heard anything bad about Ralphy. Plus, I think he kind of caters to the mountain market doesnt he??

trinitypowder · Mar 3, 2009

Big John/SHR860. He's a Minnysoda flatlander, but he rides and developes his motor at Cooke City, MT. I went with him because of his accessibilty and great track record. I have never heard of one of his motors "popping" or burning down. He has 25+860's out there and I think he said only one went bye bye due to bad gas. Mine runs like a champ. If you have a about 3g's(that's taking her apart, trueing the crank, shockwave, clutch brace, and clutch kit) send the motor to him and turn him loose! You'll be happy

I have called him about 30 times in the last 3 months and he answers about 95% of the time. The other 5% takes him half day before he'll get back to you. That IS CUSTOMER SERVICE :beer;

Brotha NOS · Mar 3, 2009

Seeing that you are in Beaumont, Alberta that should be an easy choice. Split Second is in Valleyview. Call Ralph and ask him all the questions. I'm sure that the other engine builders are good too, but you will not be disappointed in Ralph's work.

steve8 · Apr 5, 2009

is al's an 888??? or an 880? whats the difference in hp from 860 to 880?

Original Tetonice · Apr 5, 2009

Dave Trigstad builds all the race motors for RMSHA racers as well a lot of SnoX racers. I suggest you look into Trigstad motors

OT

DaveB · Apr 5, 2009

Sorry Brotha Nos....you and some others have done good, but I gotta say my piece: I am very dissapointed in my Split Second 885. Taken all season playing with it and it almost runs as good as a stocker now. Total waste of $$$.

Proline Decals · Apr 6, 2009

we have (had) 2 rk tek 860, and we might as well each took 2 grand and threw it out the window (sleds would barely beat a stock 800). terrible customer service. snotty attitude, and absolutely no help in trying to get them to run better. thought i did my homework, but i guess there is a sucker born every minute, i believed the hype! i would go with mott's or split second. just pick someone close, so if you do have problems, you can hopefully get them rectified quickly. our other 860 is finally starting to run stronger, after much time and more money was put into it.

just my .02, but as you can tell, i am still a little ticked. and i don't even own the sled anymore!

Get a Grip and Rip!

Rotaris · Apr 6, 2009

DaveB said:
Sorry Brotha Nos....you and some others have done good, but I gotta say my piece: I am very dissapointed in my Split Second 885. Taken all season playing with it and it almost runs as good as a stocker now. Total waste of $$$.

That just makes my head spin? I am sure Ralph would look at it again? Is it the "Motor Work" or a issue with (insert list).

DaveB · Apr 6, 2009

Rotaris said:
That just makes my head spin? I am sure Ralph would look at it again? Is it the "Motor Work" or a issue with (insert list).

Don't know. I had my dealer install the BB. Rode the sled stock the first weekend as we were waiting for parts...the sled was awesome. Put BB in and it was so so. Hmmm...needs clutching....spent the next 6 weekends trying every clutch set-up under the sun. Hmmm where's it supposed to run? Dealer says 8300, Ralphy says 8000. Hmmm.sled won't pull over 7900. "Oh well, everyone else runs the Crankshop pipe and MBRP. The THING can won't work". So I buy the pipe and MBRP....already had the Y-pipe. Spend the next 5 weekends trying more clutching. Getting beat by stock 05 Rev 151's. Get tips from Brotha Nos and others about what they run....buy and try that...same deal. I have had help from DJ, BJ, WinterBrew, Brotha Nos, Eyiebob and many others....and really I am thankful that there are people out there totally not connected to my project who are willing to help....but none of it worked. Had it back to the dealer 3 times to check RAVEs, air leaks, carbs, ECMs, etc, etc....nothing wrong. So....now its parked for the season. Know what? its to the point where I am almost ready to quit sledding....seriously.

DWHalverson · Apr 6, 2009

I assume you tried the clutching Ralph suggested? Have you talked to him about the issues. I think your dealer might be the weak link. Run the specs that Ralph tells you: clutching, jetting, exhaust and rpm. Don't throw any other variables at it if Ralph doesn't suggest it. Good luck. I'm sure Ralph will make it work like it should.

He built the engine he should know.

DaveB said:
Don't know. I had my dealer install the BB. Rode the sled stock the first weekend as we were waiting for parts...the sled was awesome. Put BB in and it was so so. Hmmm...needs clutching....spent the next 6 weekends trying every clutch set-up under the sun. Hmmm where's it supposed to run? Dealer says 8300, Ralphy says 8000. Hmmm.sled won't pull over 7900. "Oh well, everyone else runs the Crankshop pipe and MBRP. The THING can won't work". So I buy the pipe and MBRP....already had the Y-pipe. Spend the next 5 weekends trying more clutching. Getting beat by stock 05 Rev 151's. Get tips from Brotha Nos and others about what they run....buy and try that...same deal. I have had help from DJ, BJ, WinterBrew, Brotha Nos, Eyiebob and many others....and really I am thankful that there are people out there totally not connected to my project who are willing to help....but none of it worked. Had it back to the dealer 3 times to check RAVEs, air leaks, carbs, ECMs, etc, etc....nothing wrong. So....now its parked for the season. Know what? its to the point where I am almost ready to quit sledding....seriously.

steveo10 · Apr 6, 2009

deaner said:
Hey guys. Thinking about doing a big bore on my XP. Just wondering what the main differences are between the different options out there. And what your opinion of the "best" one out there. Also any real world comparisons would be great. Do they all use the same pistons? Claimed HP?

Options:

Big John 860
RKT 860
Turbo Al 888
Split Second 860
Motts machining 880
Engine Tech 860

Im thinking either Engine Tech because Ive heard good things about Art. One thing that concerns me is that he is from out east. Not sure if he does any testing in the mountains or not. Either that or Split Second. Ive never heard anything bad about Ralphy. Plus, I think he kind of caters to the mountain market doesnt he??

Bikeman 880

drinkwyo · Apr 6, 2009

If I was a skidoo rider, which im not, after being around a couple BB xps, I would spend my money with 1 person only. BIGJOHNNY

His BB xp runs very well and I know if you have a problem he will go out of his way to fix it.

DRD · Apr 6, 2009

DWHalverson said:
I assume you tried the clutching Ralph suggested? Have you talked to him about the issues. I think your dealer might be the weak link. Run the specs that Ralph tells you: clutching, jetting, exhaust and rpm. Don't throw any other variables at it if Ralph doesn't suggest it. Good luck. I'm sure Ralph will make it work like it should.

He built the engine he should know.

If the motor was making the power and torque it should, it would pull through all but the worst set ups and be better than stock. Trust me, I've seen the mountain of different clutch set ups Dave's tried, it's my 05 he's trying to catch. Even if he didn't put thought into clutching, the sheer amount of combinations should have found something close. Time to put it on an engine dyno and see what's going on.
SS is a good engine builder, I've got one of his 809's and it rips, so I'm lost as to why Dave' sucks.

Original Tetonice · Apr 6, 2009

DaveB, the BigBores in our area that have gone to far out of the box with mods have all run poorly.....The XP 800 has a very small window of tolerance to work with and if you stray to far out of the box you lose performance.

The best BigBores in our area run best with the stock exhuast and some seem to run even better when the restrictive stock airbox is replaced with K&N's (venting is required) allowing for more air.....Air + Fuel = Power

From the sound of things i don't believe your issues are clutching.

OT

Stucky · Apr 6, 2009

Dave I here you pain, I have an 888 from Al, clutched with his spec's, as well as a few other combinations, because you can never sit back and watch a stock XP climb as high as you??? We have a stock XP and a Motts 880, and my sled is the 3rd place sled. I too can not get over 7900 rpm. I have taken weight out of the primary and still only see 7900, maybe 8000 on the hard pack.

My sled has thrown so may codes at me it hurts. I get the codes cleared and still have the same problems.

As for what builder to go with??? The Mott's 880 in our group is very happy with his. He has DJ cluthcing, it pulls good and he likes it.

deaner · Apr 6, 2009

Sorry to hear about your luck Dave. Thats why I wanted to do a little research before I dropped the coin. It seems like even bigbore to bigbore with the same builder, these things seem to be kind of hit and miss.

Lightening800 and I both found the same wall at 7900rpm with stock sleds and Engine tech heads. I dont think its the ECU putting up a wall though because my knock sensor has never went off once. I havent noticed any difference running a 14-1 head. Raced a bone stock xp and we were dead even. I know theres more to it than racing, but was looking for some kind of comparison.

jacks · Apr 6, 2009

deaner i was very impressed at how fast that bikeman 880 came up monster chute at yamafest. He was the third one over. i thought it was a turbo so i went and looked at it. Had a stock pipe. bikeman head and stinger.. along with the big bore. cory said they had a couple 880s up there and all ran the same. seen it at big iron as well and it stole the show.

Sheriff · Apr 6, 2009

DaveB said:
Don't know. I had my dealer install the BB. Rode the sled stock the first weekend as we were waiting for parts...the sled was awesome. Put BB in and it was so so. Hmmm...needs clutching....spent the next 6 weekends trying every clutch set-up under the sun. Hmmm where's it supposed to run? Dealer says 8300, Ralphy says 8000. Hmmm.sled won't pull over 7900. "Oh well, everyone else runs the Crankshop pipe and MBRP. The THING can won't work". So I buy the pipe and MBRP....already had the Y-pipe. Spend the next 5 weekends trying more clutching. Getting beat by stock 05 Rev 151's. Get tips from Brotha Nos and others about what they run....buy and try that...same deal. I have had help from DJ, BJ, WinterBrew, Brotha Nos, Eyiebob and many others....and really I am thankful that there are people out there totally not connected to my project who are willing to help....but none of it worked. Had it back to the dealer 3 times to check RAVEs, air leaks, carbs, ECMs, etc, etc....nothing wrong. So....now its parked for the season. Know what? its to the point where I am almost ready to quit sledding....seriously.

Dave. 4 of us in our group have Ralphy's Big Bore Kits, 3 of us with 860's & 1 with the 885. All of these sleds work exceptionally well. We all have very similiar clutching allowing for slight difference in rider weight. If I were you I would go back to stock clutch set-up & add a small amount of weight to the primary & go from there. These motors like 8000 RPM. Not 8300 like Brad has told you. If you can't get RPM then go back to the stock weight to see if that helps. This should all but eliminate the RPM issue. As far as pipe & can, we have several combinations Crank Shop Pipe/MBRP can. Stock Pipe/Jaws can. Crank Shop Pipe/ Jaws can. They all seem to work quite well. Stop & see me next time you are in Olds & we can discuss this a little deeper. Or call me @ 403-556-0428...

Sheriff

DaveB · Apr 6, 2009

Thanks for the offer....your postings from last season were one of the reasons I went with the Split Second set-up this season....figured you guys had it scienced out....and it appears you do. I've already tried what you've suggested, and more. I've tried 09 stock clutching AND 08 stock clutching. I ran EXACTLY what Brotha Nos has for clutching. I've run DJ clutching, BJ, clutching and WB clutching.....and everything in between. I have 441's, 413's, 415's and DJ custom ramps. I have a 43/47, 46/36, QR11, and Shockwave helix. I have stock rollers and 1mm rollers. You can't list a combo I haven't tried. Doesn't matter if I spin the motor 7700 or 8300....I still get 67 to 75 km/hr trackspeed, depending on snow type.....and DRD's stock 05 151 runs right beside me.

Not ranting at you Sheriff, just showing my due diligence in trying to make this thing work. I ran the jetting that Brad recommended since he knows all of the sleds in your guy's group. This past weekend I tried 540's....no real change...maaaaybe a hair more. Brad has had the sled 3 times looking for problems with the BRP side of things and he can't find anything. I understand the risks and the "game" when modding things...but this one has so far been the worst waste of $$$ since I got into this sledding thing. At least I never bought Wolfpack reeds for it. Hahahaha.

On the plus side, the sled never missed a beat all year. Runs reliable and smooth. Starts 2nd or 3rd pull every AM. It's been rock solid....it just doesn't make any more HP than a stocker. I should pull the engine apart....maybe Brad forgot to put the BB in it!

canucklehead · Apr 6, 2009

crappy dave

Wow Dave I had no idea you were having those issues. I guess I should log on once in a while. I would have went with Ralph for the same reasons you did and his stuff has always rocked. Was considering doing something next year as she'll be out of warranty after this season.

Lightening800 and I both found the same wall at 7900rpm with stock sleds and Engine tech heads. I dont think its the ECU putting up a wall though because my knock sensor has never went off once. I havent noticed any difference running a 14-1 head. Raced a bone stock xp and we were dead even. I know theres more to it than racing, but was looking for some kind of comparison.

I have an engine tech head and don't have any issues with it.

XP big bores - lets compare

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