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*** Letter from Forest Service-Possible Closures *** TEANAWAY POSSE ENFORCEMENT

H

hurleyboarder21

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TEANAWAY POSSE ENFORCEMENT

from timm foss at the forest service.....
As you know, we (the Forest Service) are completely unable to patrol these boundaries with any degree of effectiveness.



Since we could lose the north teanaway to the wilderness riders .

Is anyone interested in doing something about it?

Could we get some guys with some satellite
phones ??

some blockers at scotty?

video cams with following riders.. willing to testify in court.

what do you guys think it would take?
 
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ruffryder

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Not sure. I am willing to donate some time to the cause. Do you have the contact information for Tim Foss? Might be worthwhile to get his input on what we can do to be more proactive and would help them...
 

mc2stroke

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from timm foss at the forest service.....


Since we could lose the north teanaway to the wilderness riders .

Is anyone interested in doing something about it?

Could we get some guys with some satellite
phones ??

some blockers at scotty?

video cams with following riders.. willing to testify in court.

what do you guys think it would take?

I'm a bit confused about some of your suggestions, maybe I'm just dense...:face-icon-small-con

BUT I am willing to do things that would help the snowmobiling community that is also approved or at least acceptable by the FS. I am willing to place more signage and mark appropriate areas.

Let me know how I can help.
 

winter brew

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Better signage would be a start.....Yes, there are those that enter Wilderness intentionally, but I'm thinking the vast majority are ignorant of exactly where the borders are. I know in some areas there is even debate between those that THINK they know. Perhaps some signs (not buried in the winter) in areas that are known as common access areas. Make it a large number of highly visible signs....not 1 small sign every 300 feet that is easy to miss.
 

rmk2112

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Here is a email I sent to Tim and his response. This was sent when this thread was 1st started in March, (newer thread was merged with this sticky thread at top of section), he seem very enthusiastic about support form sledders and our desire to help police ourselves.
I urge all WA sledders to contact him in a similar manner to offer your support and dedication in keeping our ares open.

Hi Tim,

A couple of snowmobilers, Bob Seelye & Dan Johnson posted your email regarding wilderness incursions on SnoWest forums, Bob sent me your email. I am the moderator for Riding Areas: Washington on SnoWest. I have put the thread with the contents of the email at the top of our section for all to see. It is getting an obvious & overwhelmingly good response.

I am also an avid snowmobiler who is saddened by the few who disregard the rules and give snowmobilers a bad name. I am sending this email to ask if you will put me on your email list. I would like to receive informative emails like this one and offer my assistance in helping the USFS help us in policing ourselves and doing what we can to protect the wilderness areas for all future enthusiasts. Please let me know if there is anything I can do.

Regards,

Jeff Bryant
Thanks, Jeff! I really appreciate all the folks who are willing to help out here, and thanks for posting it on the website. I'll put you on the list for future correspondence!



Tim Foss
Trails, Wilderness, and ORV Manager
Cle Elum Ranger District
[FONT=&quot]
Lets all do what we can to keep our winter playground open to ALL winter enthusiasts........sledders, skiers, hikers, everyone who enjoys the winter wonderland we call the WA mountains.
If ALL winter enthusiasts can direct our attentions to the few who shun the rules, not all who engage in the sport...We all win.

[/FONT]
 
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ruffryder

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rmk, sometimes stickies are not the best way to attract new interest in a subject. While hurly's comments were along the same line as this one, it also brought new visibility to the argument / discussion.

Sometimes people ignore stickies, as they think they have read everything there is. When an old thread pops up to the top again, or a new thread gets created, it gets revived and people take interest because it is easy to see that there is something new going on with it.

Just some rambling.. I know that I wouldn't of looked here if it were not for the fact that the other one got moved...
 

ruffryder

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I got some information from Tim Foss at the FS as to what we snowmobilers can due to help the situation. I posted this as a question and answer, I asked the questions, Tim Foss answered them.

Question - What can snowmobilers do to help? Besides signage and getting the word out? Is it possible to do a citizens arrest? Is it possible to take enough pictures, in an appropriate manor for the FS to write tickets afterword?

Answer. You can't make a citizens arrest, but if you can take pictures clearly enough to identify who's doing it, and get them to us, we will go after them. Ideally, a picture of their registration tag, but that might be difficult. Even if you are able to read the tag number while another buddy is BS-ing with them would work. You would also need to get a clear look at the individual so you could identify them later - again a picture is ideal. See, in order to prosecute, we need to clearly demonstrate to the judge that Mr. ABC was riding in the wilderness, not just that his sled was sighted there. So pictures and descriptions - as much and as clearly as possible.

Question - Would it be possible for the FS service to be called in when there is a known Wilderness incursion? Kind of like a Wilderness response or something?

Answer -There are hardly ever times when we can drop what we're doing and jet up to the wilderness boundary somewhere. But there would be some times when - for instance - you saw people riding in wilderness, and got the appropriate pictures and descriptions, that we could meet them at the sno-park and nail them there. We might be able to set something up where you could call the sheriff's department, who could then radio us.
 

rmk2112

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rmk, sometimes stickies are not the best way to attract new interest in a subject. While hurly's comments were along the same line as this one, it also brought new visibility to the argument / discussion.

Sometimes people ignore stickies, as they think they have read everything there is. When an old thread pops up to the top again, or a new thread gets created, it gets revived and people take interest because it is easy to see that there is something new going on with it.

Just some rambling.. I know that I wouldn't of looked here if it were not for the fact that the other one got moved...

Excellent point ruffyryder.

Thread unstuck and Title edited.
 

winter brew

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If you are close enough to get legible pictures, especially of a tag number.....I'm thinking you are also in Wilderness. ?? :face-icon-small-con
 

diamonddave

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I got some information from Tim Foss at the FS as to what we snowmobilers can due to help the situation. I posted this as a question and answer, I asked the questions, Tim Foss answered them.

Question - What can snowmobilers do to help? Besides signage and getting the word out? Is it possible to do a citizens arrest? Is it possible to take enough pictures, in an appropriate manor for the FS to write tickets afterword?

Answer. You can't make a citizens arrest, but if you can take pictures clearly enough to identify who's doing it, and get them to us, we will go after them. Ideally, a picture of their registration tag, but that might be difficult. Even if you are able to read the tag number while another buddy is BS-ing with them would work. You would also need to get a clear look at the individual so you could identify them later - again a picture is ideal. See, in order to prosecute, we need to clearly demonstrate to the judge that Mr. ABC was riding in the wilderness, not just that his sled was sighted there. So pictures and descriptions - as much and as clearly as possible.

Question - Would it be possible for the FS service to be called in when there is a known Wilderness incursion? Kind of like a Wilderness response or something?

Answer -There are hardly ever times when we can drop what we're doing and jet up to the wilderness boundary somewhere. But there would be some times when - for instance - you saw people riding in wilderness, and got the appropriate pictures and descriptions, that we could meet them at the sno-park and nail them there. We might be able to set something up where you could call the sheriff's department, who could then radio us.



Nice work Ruffy, don't return messagaes?

My first thought is this what riding has come too? Winterbrew makes a very good point. There seem to be a few areas where the interpretation of the line is in dispute. Could some complaints be in these areas? I don't know but I doo know that when I'm close to some of the boundaries, I'm not seeing tracks going into these areas.

Which/what areas are getiing the most complaints? Maybe some emphasis on signage would certainly help and I'll bet reduce these kind of complaints.
 

94fordguy

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Better signage would be a start.....Yes, there are those that enter Wilderness intentionally, but I'm thinking the vast majority are ignorant of exactly where the borders are. I know in some areas there is even debate between those that THINK they know. Perhaps some signs (not buried in the winter) in areas that are known as common access areas. Make it a large number of highly visible signs....not 1 small sign every 300 feet that is easy to miss.

That would be a very good idea to help matters in problem areas.
 

ruffryder

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If you are close enough to get legible pictures, especially of a tag number.....I'm thinking you are also in Wilderness. ?? :face-icon-small-con
I assume you would have to take pictures of them in the Wilderness, then take pictures of them to identify them while they are closer to you outside of the Wilderness.

You bring up a good point though... can't really be going in the wilderness to get pictures of people that are riding in wilderness now can we...

It also pertains to non-motorized users as well. You are right though, it is a little more difficult for us to catch them in the act..
 

ruffryder

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Nice work Ruffy, don't return messagaes?

My first thought is this what riding has come too? Winterbrew makes a very good point. There seem to be a few areas where the interpretation of the line is in dispute. Could some complaints be in these areas? I don't know but I doo know that when I'm close to some of the boundaries, I'm not seeing tracks going into these areas.

Which/what areas are getiing the most complaints? Maybe some emphasis on signage would certainly help and I'll bet reduce these kind of complaints.
Good questions. I don't know the answer to them. Maybe someone with more knowledge would be able to answer these. Judging from non-motorized ride reports, there are many tracks that are pretty far inside of the Wilderness boundary.

As to your first question.. no! :face-icon-small-win
 
Y
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Each year we do a clean up at the most popular areas, could it be that we also do a signage day, where we go to the usual places to be sure signage is visible and elevated enough to not be buried by snow?
 

ruffryder

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Each year we do a clean up at the most popular areas, could it be that we also do a signage day, where we go to the usual places to be sure signage is visible and elevated enough to not be buried by snow?
Sounds like a plan..
 
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Y
Nov 26, 2007
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LOL...I'm sure that never crossed his mind :face-icon-small-hap

hahahaha....glad you caught him before he edited his post.....ruffy, dying your hair blonde now days? If we post the signage when there's no snow it won't be high enough when there is......

I think coordinating with FS and someone operating the high tech gps with maps(besides ruffy) would be a fun outing....unless ruff forgets his shovel...:face-icon-small-con:face-icon-small-hap
 
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