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5spd vs 6spd, close or wide ratio?

S
Nov 14, 2020
31
12
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Have a friend looking at upgrading his snow bike. Looking at a 450sx-f or mc450-f.

What is everyone's experience with the 5 speed close ratio transmission?
 
J

JimBridger

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2013
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SE Idaho
I prefer the close ratio 5 until I have to ride trail. That being said, with enough horse torques the wider ratio is nice because you don't have to shift as much.
 
M
Jan 14, 2004
3,079
1,390
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I have the best of both worlds, I added the YZFX overdrive 5th to my close ratio YZ450 trans when I split the cases so it flies on the trail now. My buddy clocked me at 68 mph yesterday.

M5
 
G
Dec 20, 2007
1,941
864
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Three Forks, MT
Close ratio is hands down better for snow and that is a fact. The tighter spacing is needed.

However, if you are summer single track riding, the wide ratio on a 450 is hands down better. Although any 450 still blows for tight single track.

I wouldn't mind adding the 6th to my 2019 Husky 5 speed close ratio just for some groomed trails, but not really worth it unless its apart for a crank rebuild or trans issue.
 

Chadx

♫ In the pow again. Just can't wait to get in..
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Feb 2, 2010
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Bozeman, MT
It all comes down to personal preference, but here is mine. My first two snowbikes were 500 with wide ratio. Last build was an 450 so close ratio. I found the close ratio much better for everything except top speed trail riding. With this bike, I cruise at about 40 - 45mph to keep the rpms down on the wide open trail (will hit 55+ mph if I really want to). A 40 - 45mph cruising speed is plenty in the twisty section of trails and not a huge deal on the open sections of trail since I ride with a lot of sleds (they can go much faster but choose not to because 3" paddles don't like high-speed, hard trails and so they cruise around 40 - 50mph anyway).

For me, off trail I found the close ratio much MUCH better. No frustratingly huge gap between 2nd and 3rd gears like on the wide ratio. In any terrain including up the steeps, clicking down one gear takes a small bite and gets me back in the sweet spot of rpm range rather than bouncing off the rev limiter immediately like my two wide ratio bikes.
Also, on my two wide ratio bikes and the kit gearing, 1st gear was uselessly low and so was frustrating because I could not just tap-tap-tap all the way down and be in a useable gear; I either had to track what gear I was in to know how many downshifts got me to second or tap all the way down then one up to get to second. I have none of that with the close ratio. I was worried a close ratio 1st gear would be too tall for some things, but with my stock 2020 Yeti 129 kit, 1st is perfectly useable for loading in the trailer, burping out of stucks, and slow/tight tree riding (and I do not use a Rekluse; I'm factory clutch).

I was a bit concerned that moving to a close ratio would mean a lot more shifting, but that has not been the case. I found that the extra 2,000rpm ceiling of the 450 over the 500 allowed me to stay in a gear longer and so really no more shifting than my 500 close ratio bikes (that would be a different story comparing a 450 close to a 450 wide, but then, a 450 wide wouldn't hold/pull a given gear as long as a torquey 500).

I agree that ideally, I'd have a close ratio with a tall 5th from a wide ratio that some have done, but for me, really not a big enough deal to split the cases just for that even though I usually have a 8 - 12 miles trail ride in.
I have 20 - 30 minutes a day of trail riding total and with a tall 5th, that would still be 15 - 20minutes. That savings of 5 - 10 minutes a day isn't worth it to me because the rest of the day the close ratio is perfect in every way. Even if I could only go 35mph instead of my current 40-45mph, it would be worth it.

I'll never go back to a wide ratio snowbike again.
 
S
Nov 14, 2020
31
12
8
I don't notice it as much on my 500. From 3rd to 4th it sounds like it's going to lug but I just twist the throttle more and it pulls through it.
 

BeeDoo

Well-known member
Premium Member
Feb 12, 2008
450
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UT
ChadX is spot on with his comments.

I ride a 2019 YZ450F. The ride on the road for 5-10 miles or whatever isn't great. And I'm often wishing I had more top end. But, when I get to the actual riding areas -- meadows, trees, climbs, etc. the close ratio is worth it.
We also have a WR450 with a wider gear ratio. It's tougher to find the right gear/RPM especially as the snow gets deeper and the turns get tighter.
 
M
Jan 14, 2004
3,079
1,390
113
The hybrid transmission is the answer. Now that I have it I wouldn't go back. That said, I also wouldn't split the cases just for that purpose but if you are goin in there anyways its a no brainer. The parts are right around $100 on a YZ. We have 2 of them going now and they are great. If I was doing a second top end at say 150 hours or so I'd give it some serious thought because the YZ shift forks will be done or close to done by then anyways.

M5
 

dooman92

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Mar 1, 2010
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The gap on my 5 speed FX from 2-3 was too wide. Biggest drawback of that bike making it less viable option as a snowbike. Ive have two ktm 500s with six speed and I prefer that to the five speed for the lower first and higher 6th. As Sowa mentioned, I don't notice any gaps with my 500's. They pull the appropriate gear without shifting at the rev limit.
 
S
Nov 14, 2020
31
12
8
What are people's thoughts on 2017-2022 300 XC vs 300 XC-W. From what I gather 3rd - 6th are identical, 2nd is off by one tooth (16:25 vs 16:26) and 1st is much lower on the xcw. I'm wondering how bad is the gap from 2nd to 3rd?
 
G
Dec 20, 2007
1,941
864
113
Three Forks, MT
What are people's thoughts on 2017-2022 300 XC vs 300 XC-W. From what I gather 3rd - 6th are identical, 2nd is off by one tooth (16:25 vs 16:26) and 1st is much lower on the xcw. I'm wondering how bad is the gap from 2nd to 3rd?

XC is much preferred and the SX would be ideal but would definitely lower your top speed a bunch

My 11 300 XC still felt a little gappy but not bad. I definitely wouldn't want the W. New 23 XC gearbox is a wide ratio that is wider than the 11-22 XC-W so don't think I would want that either.
 

Cooksend

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Feb 22, 2008
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The gap on my 5 speed FX from 2-3 was too wide. Biggest drawback of that bike making it less viable option as a snowbike. Ive have two ktm 500s with six speed and I prefer that to the five speed for the lower first and higher 6th. As Sowa mentioned, I don't notice any gaps with my 500's. They pull the appropriate gear without shifting at the rev limit.
I have an FE501 and an FX450 both set up as snowbikes. The 501 has a wide ratio tranny with a wide gap between 2 and 3rd. My 450 close ratio is fantastic. I think you have that backwards.
 

dooman92

Well-known member
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Mar 1, 2010
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yes, I was talking about yami 450fx with the wide gap 2-3. I have two 500's and have ridden the 450 xc/sx and prefer the six speed in the 500 over the 5speed in the sx/xc. But I am an older rider and seldom, if ever, hit the rev limiter. I don't notice any gaps in the 6 speed 500, works great for me. I understand the benefit of the close 5 for more agressive riders.
 

jrlastofthebreed

It seemed like a good idea at the time
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Oct 24, 2016
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Coeur d'Alene ID
Close ratio is the best for snow in my opinion. Get a ktm/husky/gas gas sxf or xcf and add the 6th gear out of the EXCF bikes. Costs about $300 in parts. Lots of how to instructions online. I can cruse at 55 yet still have a good usable 1st gear. The 350 xcf has a semi close ratio and that is PERFECT for snow. but far as i can tell they never put one in a 450 and you cant do a gear swap.
 
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