ABS airbag technology on the today show

backcountryislife · Oct 1, 2012

The today show showcases inventions of 2012 (ok, it wasn't invented in 2012 but whatever) including the new TNF pack paired with ABS technology.

I got to be in on the development of this pack & it's vest companion, pretty cool stuff. I think TNF will bring the ABS technology to the mainstream quicker than we've been able to do, which is a great thing!!

Btw, I think Snowbigdeal will be carrying these packs in their lineup as well.

milehighassassin · Oct 1, 2012

Is this different from an avivest or is it rebadged?

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SnowBigDeal · Oct 2, 2012

This is a completely different vest from the AviVest. The vest is made by The North Face and the Airbag system is the ABS system, so you can use the same canister from the ABS packs in The North Face packs.

Check it out online at: http://www.snowbigdeal.com/the-north-face-powder-guide-airbag-vest.html

Reg2view · Oct 2, 2012

Looked at the pics, they must have the firing handle zipped in a pocket. I do have an ABS Freeride. Prices about $400 cheaper would be nice, too...

milehighassassin · Oct 2, 2012

$400 cheaper = Avivest

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backcountryislife · Oct 2, 2012

milehighassassin said:
$400 cheaper = Avivest

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but then you don't have the ABS system, and you've only got one bag.

The TNF pack is pretty pricey, but I think it'll appeal to a different crowd than some of the others do.

milehighassassin · Oct 2, 2012

Why is the ABS system superior?

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Norona · Oct 3, 2012

milehighassassin said:
Why is the ABS system superior?

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-2 bags totallying 170 litres - largest out of any bag and two in case one is damaged in an avy by trees, rocks or other

-uses nitrogen to fill bags 1/3 - 2/3 outside air which is not affected by altitude, so provides a fuller bag, oxygen is also prone to freezing, nitrogen is not

-ABS uses a charge in the handle to fire air to puncture the pin, the handle needs less pressure to pull over a cable, a cable needs a longer harder pull and is prone to rusting or other failures, ABS stopped using a cable in 1993

-simpler replacement, carry an extra canister and handle and you can reload your bag in about 4 minutes, no o-rings to worry about or change

-handle and cartridges are replaced by bringing into shop and 35 dollars gives you a replacement-this is more money than filling oxygen, however the ABS bottles-I have yet to have one leak in 5 years of working with them and handling hundreds of blow offs,

-abs has wireless now so you can blow your friends bag off as you will see the snow cracking before they do...

-zip in bags allows you to own one pack with the option to zip in a 15 litre snowmobile pack, a 15 litre pack, 25 litre pack or 40 litre pack...covering more with one base unit

Snowbird11 · Oct 3, 2012

Norona said:
-2 bags totallying 170 litres - largest out of any bag and two in case one is damaged in an avy by trees, rocks or other

-uses nitrogen to fill bags 1/3 - 2/3 outside air which is not affected by altitude, so provides a fuller bag, oxygen is also prone to freezing, nitrogen is not

-ABS uses a charge in the handle to fire air to puncture the pin, the handle needs less pressure to pull over a cable, a cable needs a longer harder pull and is prone to rusting or other failures, ABS stopped using a cable in 1993

-simpler replacement, carry an extra canister and handle and you can reload your bag in about 4 minutes, no o-rings to worry about or change

-handle and cartridges are replaced by bringing into shop and 35 dollars gives you a replacement-this is more money than filling oxygen, however the ABS bottles-I have yet to have one leak in 5 years of working with them and handling hundreds of blow offs,

-abs has wireless now so you can blow your friends bag off as you will see the snow cracking before they do...

-zip in bags allows you to own one pack with the option to zip in a 15 litre snowmobile pack, a 15 litre pack, 25 litre pack or 40 litre pack...covering more with one base unit

good observations. sums up the reasons my organization chose the ABS system over the others we tested.

FCR112 · Oct 5, 2012

So the big question for me is do you have to take your helmet off, to get the vest off, anytime you want to use your shovel or access anything in the back of the vest?

The vests are cool, but that part sucks. Maybe this one is designed different?

Blk88GT · Oct 5, 2012

TNF contributes to closing areas for motorized use, do they not?

Reg2view · Oct 7, 2012

Blk88GT said:
TNF contributes to closing areas for motorized use, do they not?

Yep, and add Patagonia to the list, where they specifically designate a portion of profit to wilderness causes. And the mess many of these climbers leave behind...

Powder Buster · Oct 7, 2012

I hope backcountryislife or snowbigdeal will chime in again on this.

Reading this thread, my first reaction was the same thing about the north face, but couldn't imagine BCIL or SNOWBIGDEAL would be involved with a company donating money to anti-sledding causes. It got me to dig a little deeper because I grew up back-country skiing, and would own nothing but north face or patagonia back then. Now I've got a personal ban on either of those companies for this very reason.

After a little searching, all i can find is a couple things on some ORV sites that seem to say both the north face and patagonia no longer contribute to organizations like the sierra club. I need something a little more solid though before I look to spend any money on their products again.

Here's a link to one that I found, it's from 2011. http://www.allcrawl.com/read.php?2,472

Take a look, might be surprised at who is on the list that supports sierra club anyway. I've got no idea how accurate it is, but like I said, it's all I could find.

Anybody else have something a little more solid to add? BCIL or SNOWBIGDEAL?

Reg2view · Oct 7, 2012

I'm sure I'm taking food out of someone's mouth.

Here is the California Wilderness Coalition, sponsored by the The Conservation Aliance. Just one to name a few the Conservation Alliance sponsors.

http://www.calwild.org/giving/corporate-giving.html

Here is the Conservation Alliance, whose current sponsors include The North Face, Patagonia, REI, Columbia, all giving at least $100,000 annually. Okay, that's their business. Good for them. Mine is not supporting eco-nazis.

http://www.conservationalliance.com/membership

Look at their list of grants. Pretty obvious to me where the money goes. It's stunning how many wilderness projects with anti-snowmobiling/powersports themes they support. It's like a who's who of eco-terrorism projects.

Powder Buster · Oct 7, 2012

Reg,
Thanks for the information. I was afraid this is what would come up. Scary how hard it is to stay away from businesses that don't support our causes, and I know the links you gave are a very small sample of this. At least we can try to make informed purchase decisions. A big reason I support KLIM, Motorfist and other sled specific product manufacturers when possible.

milehighassassin · Oct 7, 2012

Businesses I noticed they many snowmobiles support:
-smith
-Verizon
-american express
-dicks sporting goods
-anheuser Busch
-chevron
-coca cola
-Exxon mobile
-Honeywell (who makes your turbo?)

This list is huge. Honestly it's pretty damn hard to keep your money away.

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mx100 · Oct 7, 2012

Wow, I had NO idea! Looks like they use our money to take away our riding area's. I wish this was advertised a little more on our forums. Thanks for posting!!!

backcountryislife · Oct 8, 2012

I don't honestly see sledders buying a TNF pack, and I don't honestly see skiers buying klim gear...

I have a friend who works for TNF, and being that I do what I do, he asked me for input/ observations on the pack. Politics aside, I like the idea that this technology is making it into the mainstream a bit more. That said... I don't buy from TNF, and I do my best not to buy from the companies who give money to the nazi organizations.

Snowbigdeal sells to more than just the sled market, so for him to not carry a product that will be desired by another demographic would be short sighted IMO... it's a tough line to toe.

bushy · Oct 30, 2012

What makes you think ABS is any different than north face, Patagonia, or Sierra Club in their politics. Go visit their website and explore all their affilations they have with anything snowmobile related. Zero, zilch, nada... They don't support snowmobiling in any way shape or form. I'll spend my money on BCA gear and know I'm supporting a company that supports me. Look at all the sledding companies ABS is affiliated with http://abs-airbag.de/us/community/professional-partners/. I'll save you 5 seconds...none.

Norona · Nov 3, 2012

bushy said:
What makes you think ABS is any different than north face, Patagonia, or Sierra Club in their politics. Go visit their website and explore all their affilations they have with anything snowmobile related. Zero, zilch, nada... They don't support snowmobiling in any way shape or form. I'll spend my money on BCA gear and know I'm supporting a company that supports me. Look at all the sledding companies ABS is affiliated with http://abs-airbag.de/us/community/professional-partners/. I'll save you 5 seconds...none.

Actually ABS does work with the sledding community huge. With Polaris and Ski-Doo directly as well with many athletes. These avy bags are for the entire winter community. I sled, ski, backcountry ski and cross country ski. Each company BCA, Snowpulse and ABS support the industry which is to save human lives, not just sledder or skiers. One thing that has bothered me tremendously is the sign in the Whistler Sea 2 Sky Corridor that says " Snowmobilers Check the Avy Conditions" It should actually read all backcountry users check the avalanche conditions. Do we really want to segregate ourselves as sledders. Keep it positive! If you don't want to support a brand then do so for your reasons. The Sierra Group does do some positive stuff. I disagree with their shutting riding areas down to sleds and mountain bikes and dirt bikes but I work on opening areas through positive articles that I write in the paper and creating videos on how we can all keep areas open...as winter backcountry people safety is a big concern and these companies are helping get the word out to more people.

I don't know why someone would by the Northface Pack over the ABS as the ABS can zip in different size packs and is less money. Dakine will have a similar pack next season along with Ortovox and both will have abs inside but be more money than abs. I also work with BCA as well as ABS and they both help in the backcountry ski business as well as winter professionals and sledders...all good!

ABS airbag technology on the today show

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