Another DD Bearing Failure - 5203 this time

iahegdal · Apr 23, 2012

Hopefully the attached picture shows it all. One of the cages on the bearing failed and all the balls were ground up. This is a 2011 PG Tm8 with 420 miles on it. Wide bearing was installed at .1 miles on the odometer.

Is the BDX Diamond Lite still considered to be more bullet proof than the OEM DD?

Coldfinger · Apr 23, 2012

When you had the bearing installed, did you have the trackshaft machined down or the gearshaft shoulder machined back?

Also, did the bearing have double seals?

Just curious since BDX is saying the install can be done with no machining.

the gman · Apr 23, 2012

I have a 11 also and have installed the wide bearing on MANY 09's with no issues....However I installed one on a 10 and the bearing failed in one season so after I bought my 11 I did some research and I have had the shoulder (My bearing rests on after you take the spacer out) had to be machined out to be a depth of .750 or 3/4 of a inch to have the bearing set at the same depth as the smaller bearing...Problem is there was still side load on the bearing and Cat didn't install my sheild on the brake side so I am removing the drive shaft and having removing .015 thousands off the drive and hope it will give me .005 thousands play for heat build up. you could take all of it off the gear but I think it will not center enough in the planetary??? anyway I think cat made the driveshaft for the 10 and 11 longer than the 09's...there is a differant part number anyway...so thats what I am doing....

iahegdal · Apr 23, 2012

I asked about the need to machine, the shop that did the install said it wasn't necessary.

the gman · Apr 23, 2012

I talked to bdx and they said the driveshaft needs to be machined. If you look at the stub end of the shaft that is sticking through the small bearing before you remove it, and compare it to the stub end after the wide bearing is installed you will see the need for machining.

iahegdal · Apr 23, 2012

Did BDX tell you how much needs to be machined?

Beckwith24 · Apr 24, 2012

Gotta machine the track shaft for the most part.... Some sleds are fine without it. Some aren't. It prevents extra side load on the bearing.

Shaving down the shoulder works too except it causes a misalignment of the gears.... Not a huge deal imo unless you are running big hp.

diggerdown · Apr 24, 2012

iahegdal said:
Did BDX tell you how much needs to be machined?

usually 1.5MM

Coldfinger · Apr 24, 2012

the gman said:
I talked to bdx and they said the driveshaft needs to be machined. If you look at the stub end of the shaft that is sticking through the small bearing before you remove it, and compare it to the stub end after the wide bearing is installed you will see the need for machining.

This sounds to me like the gearshaft, not the driveshaft/trackshaft?

Did BDX flip flop for a third time on their recommendations? I believe originally they said to machine, then they said no machining needed. That was a year or two ago though.

Can a person just grind off 1.5mm from the trackshaft rather than taking the extra time and money to have a machine shop do it?

iahegdal · Apr 24, 2012

Yes, I could use a little clarification on what should be machined also. My expectation would be that the transfer gear bearing shoulder (where the 5203 inner bearing race stops on the transfer gear) would need to be machined down, not the end of trackshaft.

aksnopro · Apr 24, 2012

Mines got 1500 miles with no machining.

-Aksnopro

bgreen776 · Apr 25, 2012

iahegdal said:
Yes, I could use a little clarification on what should be machined also. My expectation would be that the transfer gear bearing shoulder (where the 5203 inner bearing race stops on the transfer gear) would need to be machined down, not the end of trackshaft.

Your right on the money.

You need to machine the track shaft if your diamond drive doesn't fit flat down against your bulkhead. (or straighten out your tunnel) Rare

You need to machine your transfer gear if your diamond drive cover doesn't fit flat down against the gear case the wider bearing. Common

Two different problems.

End of story.

bgreen776 · Apr 25, 2012

Coldfinger said:
Can a person just grind off 1.5mm from the trackshaft rather than taking the extra time and money to have a machine shop do it?

No.

bgreen776 · Apr 25, 2012

Beckwith24 said:
Gotta machine the track shaft for the most part.... Some sleds are fine without it. Some aren't. It prevents extra side load on the bearing.

Shaving down the shoulder works too except it causes a misalignment of the gears.... Not a huge deal imo unless you are running big hp.

I'm not sure I believe that, can you please show us how that would be the case? Maybe you can show us some pictures or drawings that you have from when you fixed your cases.

I don't have a drive in front of me right now, but I can't see how that could be possible. When you machine the transfer gear, you do it so the outboard end of the bearing maintains the exact same position, so the gear stays in the exact same position.

Coldfinger · Apr 26, 2012

Is the trackshaft too hard of material to grind down with a hand grinder?

It sounds like there are two things happening here - the trackshaft should be shortened to help or prevent the side loading and the gearshaft may need shoulder machined back so the cover will fit without binding.

?

diggerdown · Apr 27, 2012

I did mean to machine the gear shaft down the 1.5mm. I don't think many had to take any off the trackshaft. As long and the gear case sits flat on the tunnel when you install it there should not be a problem. If you do need to take some off of it a hand grinder would do the job.

newtrout · Apr 27, 2012

Or you can just use the 4203 double row bearing, which is the exact same dimension as the small bearing and spacer.....

2000 miles on my 4203 now.

diggerdown · Apr 27, 2012

I used the 4203 on mine too, but I had a hard time finding one. I finally got one off e-bay.

bgreen776 · Apr 28, 2012

The end of the track shaft needs to be absolutely square, a person could cut it with a hand grinder but, IMO, you'd need to rig up something to spin it so you can keep that shoulder perfectly square to the centerline. Then check the face with a dial indicator to make sure its within a half thousandths or so. If that face isn't perpendicular to the centerline of the shaft you are asking for more trouble with bearing failures.

Do it right, do it once.

Paul27 · May 5, 2012

2011 HCR DD

Worked on my 2011 HCR. It was manufactured 11/2010.

Before doing anything, with all my Diamond Drive (DD) hardware bolted solid, I measured the spacing of the track drivers inside the tunnel. The distance from the DD side driver to the tunnel was 3-3/8" or 1/16" less than the 3-7/16" distance from the brake side driver to the tunnel. Which means the track drivers are offset about 1/32" (0.030") from the tunnel center line.

When I loosened the 8 bolts holding the DD to the tunnel, the DD moved to the LEFT by 0.095" (as measured with a dial indicator). Also need to allow for a missing bearing shield on the brake side and some axial clearance. To make it right, with no side-load on the DD and the drivers centered, I plan to machine 0.100" off the drive shaft shoulder on the brake-side, and 0.030" off the DD end of the drive shaft, for 0.130" total.

That's my opinion of what's going on, and what needs to be done.

Another DD Bearing Failure - 5203 this time

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