$200 Ticket/Education

hotshot · Oct 27, 2011

So here is the story of my $200 Education.......

Yesterday I was building fence for my horses up at my house behind my barn. I was working along, minding my own business when I looked up to see a Forest Service truck pulling into my driveway. My first thought was "this is strange" and my second thought was "oh crap, what did I do". A young guy with a badge and a gun got out and flashbacks of my younger days came flooding back and I said to myself....run, dang it, run! Then I thought, no that would look stupid to the neighbors and besides that I am to old and fat to outrun this young buck.

I knew I was in trouble when he came up and asked me if I was Bryon Goody. He had a rather large file, with a ticket book on top. I took a second to answer, asking myself "should I tell him the truth or deny who I am". I told him he had his man, while I was rapidly thinking of everything I had done and wondering which one of my stupid stunts was he going to site me for.

He opened his file and to my surprise he had multiple pictures of me, my son, Riley Jorgensen, and two buddies riding bikes and four wheelers. He explained that these pictures were taken in the Kilgore area 8/26-8/27 in a clearly marked closed area to motorized vehicles. It just so happened that I was up there during that time camping. My mouth suddenly started to dump all sorts of excuses while trying desperately to talk my way out of what I knew was coming my way. This guy had worked way to hard and driven way to far to walk away empty handed. He explained to me that the National Forest has now gone "high tech". They have set up game cameras in several areas where the trails are clearly closed to non motorized vehicles.

I was shocked at the pictures. They were extremely clear and left me no way out especially since one of the pictures showed me running over their sign with my four wheeler. It clearly showed our license plates and they had a good pic helmetless on my four wheeler.

I decided then to cooperate fully and decided there was no reason to be a horses ***. Because I cooperated and promised to never do such an evil thing again, he only gave me a $200 ticket rather than the jumbo $500 one and he said he would not go after my buddies. I guarantee it cost the Feds a lot more than $200 for this guy to track me down, plus he gave me a MAP!

So here I am today....thinking. Should I not pay the ticket and see if they come after me? Should I start obeying the rules and not ride on those pristine trails that are closed? Should I stop riding my sled in that little honey hole in IP that is closed to snowmobilers? Should I stop driving 62 in 55 mph speed zone? Should I just leave my helmet on and take the damn license plate off my four wheeler and bikes (after all, that is what got me busted)?

After all, I got a $200 map,

phatty · Oct 28, 2011

hotshot said:
So I took my family up motorcycle riding and four wheeling up in Kilgore in late august. Much of the area is closed to motorized vehicles but in my arrogance I decided not to follow the rules. Well 2 months later a forrest service cop shows up at my door with a $200 ticket. It appears they have gone high tech with game cameras. I am sure it cost them more than $200 to find me but I think they were making a point. For now on if the sign says closed I'm out....bikes or sleds.

Im not saying you should, but if you do...

1- cover up your registration stickers
2- turn off all cell phones and other tracking devices
2- dont wear identifiable helmets, gear, etc.
3- dont stop unless necessary.
4- never enter from major trailheads
5- never go in large groups

Also they have money to dump into finding people, but dont have money to maintain the forests? :faint:

And my curious side has to know, HOW did they prove it was you?

PJ-Hunter · Oct 28, 2011

Well said Phatty. Those "camera tickets" are the same as the traffic tickets. They hold no reasonable proof, just hoping that somebody will just pay.

And for the cameras, a good motion sensor trail cam is well over 200 bucks. So they can afford those, but can't afford to maintain a trail so they close it?? Makes no sense to me at all.

mountainhorse · Oct 28, 2011

Plain and simple... Don't enter into wilderness or other non-motorized areas.

It sux that you got a ticket, and I feel for ya

But

Weather you are caught or not, we have to be self policing or we could actually face a situation in the near future where your nice new mountain sled is a great decoration in your garage of the "good ole days".

A friend of mine was telling me about a big fellow-sledder sting on this kind of stuff over on BCR a while back... how did that turn out?

The more tracks into current non-motorized area... the more ammo anti-motorized groups have to shut down more lands.

hotshot · Oct 28, 2011

I agree that it was my own fault (at least for getting caught). Here was my argument to him....we have ridden these trails in the past when they were not closed. Who authorizes the closure of an area? The Continental Divide trail is one of the most pristine trails in the state that is to high for most hikers....but a perfect single lane dirt bike trail. He told me that it is all way to political and that I was talking to the wrong guy.

907to406 · Oct 28, 2011

I would go back to where the pictures were taken (should be able to recognize where you were and where the camera would be in relationship to your positition) and take a bat to the camera, keep an eye out for trail cams this year fellas I know I could use a few for some hunting spots that I haven't been willing to spend the money on but hey if I run into a couple free-bees on the trail then how can I say no?

hotshot · Oct 28, 2011

Maybe I will go up in a big foot costume and jump on the sign and trash the camera....lol! I edited for the whole story.

Blk88GT · Oct 28, 2011

hotshot said:
Maybe I will go up in a big foot costume and jump on the sign and trash the camera....lol! I edited for the whole story.

LOL now that would be awesome!

suva · Oct 28, 2011

That is lame. I heard the the forest pigs were using cameras but I wasn't sure if it was true. I'll make sure and look around before I pee otherwise I might get a ticket for public urination and they'll be able to see how small my weenie gets when its cold.

Snowlover · Oct 28, 2011

I say your sorry a$$ got lucky. You could have lost that precious sign destroying wheeler.

I was very pissed to see lumber company gates closing my deer hunting area this year, but I stopped and hiked in.

Camera's suck and I would be first in line to "find" them while in the forest, but sounds like you knew better and riding in closed areas and even over the sign is crazy.

Try it again and see if you keep your toys next time.

Flame away, but I am tired of losing hunting areas because quads think they can go where they want. Muddy ruts and ripped up meadows don't melt.

sdsnocop · Oct 28, 2011

Getting a ticket is not fun. The times in my youth when I was ticketed I deserved what I got. It seems in your situation even though you did not agree with the closure you knew you were in a closed area and chose to run over the sign. Actions like that do not help the cause to keep public lands open for motorized recreation. Willfull violation of closures justs feed the movement to close more area's. The attitude from land managers and those who want us out of the forest is "we tried to close sensitive areas to vehicle travel but off road users continue to blatantly violate the closure area's and even run over the signs". The next step could easily be closing the entire forest to vehicle traffic since the limited closure areas are not working. Us as off road vehicle users need to be united in petitioning against unessessary closures of public land. We also need to set an example that we are responsible and will abide by the closures even though we may not agree with them. The attitude of "hell with them I will continue to ride that closed area, rip out the signs and smash their dumb azz camera's" will get us nowhere except riding in our garage. The only thing you will accomplish by not paying the ticket is the opportunity for the FS officer to return with tickets for the vandalism and tickets for your son and his freind. I am sorry if I offend some of you but as both a law enforcement officer and a rider and owner of ATV's and snowmobiles that is how I feel.

rmk2112 · Oct 28, 2011

Unbelievable!

When I first read this thread, I thought it was going to end with the message...."What was I thinking", "I should have known better", "I got off lucky, hey guys, don't ride in Wilderness or Non-Motorized areas", etc, etc, etc.

But it turned into a big "Here's my excuse", "That's Lame", "I think I'll go dress up and smash camera's" and "Here's a list of how you can try to get around getting caught in the Wilderness/Non-Motorized area" thread.

Do you have any idea how much ammunition your actions and this thread give to the people who are trying to take away our land.

Do you think the USFS doesn't read this forum?
Do you think the anti-sledding / non motorized community doesn't read this forum?

I'm not sure what's worse...

That you felt comfortable enough to brag about the incident in the manner that you did, or the fact that so many people jumped on your band wagon not realizing what is actually at stake every time someone does what you did.

With friends like you, the sport of snowmobiling doesn't need enemies.

hotshot · Oct 28, 2011

First of all let me set some things straight. I do not usually go around breaking the law and tearing up our national forests. I love our land and our freedoms as much as anyone. I shared this more in humor than anything else. You can ask the officer if you would like....I take full responsibility for my actions and have already paid the citation. The sign was one of the little brown ones that bounce back. The road that we were on was one that we have traveled for years and this year was closed so we took out a little frustration but did NO damage to the area.

Now for some facts.....the Continental Divide trail was originally formed in 1978 and was designed to go from Canada to Mexico. The original plan was to make it a motorized single lane trail the entire way giving access. The political tree huggers had this act changed and part of the trail including the Centenniall Mtn range in IP has been closed. This trail is still open in many areas including the Pipe Stone area in Montana. All we were trying to do was access the open part of this trail.

Now for some questions......who has the right to close a trail that has been open for years to the public and why? Is it some snot nosed kid out of college with a gun and badge that thinks he is ten feet tall? What gives them the right to take away my public lands?

Now RMK2112 I will admit that "it was a mistake" and "what was I thinking"? But you have no right to judge me and my values. But, I should have explained myself better. You will never meet a bigger advocate for freedom to use our lands than myself.......and for everyone!

I think the guys responding to my post are frustrated like me. I am damn tired of someone closing my roads and trails, sending wolves after our elk, and telling me when to crap! The frustration is overwhelming. I am sure they are not heading up tomorrow with their quads and dynamite to destroy public lands.

I would venture to say that I easily spend as much if not significantly more than most people to protect our sport and our riding areas. So, if all you do is write some dumb azz thing on the snowest forum and do nothing else, who is doing more damage, you or me? So throw stones at me all you want, but get off your butts and do something!

It's okay....you can call me a hypocrite! I've got broad shoulders....

rmk2112 · Oct 29, 2011

hotshot said:
First of all let me set some things straight. I do not usually go around breaking the law and tearing up our national forests. I love our land and our freedoms as much as anyone. I shared this more in humor than anything else. You can ask the officer if you would like....I take full responsibility for my actions and have already paid the citation. The sign was one of the little brown ones that bounce back. The road that we were on was one that we have traveled for years and this year was closed so we took out a little frustration but did NO damage to the area.

Now for some facts.....the Continental Divide trail was originally formed in 1978 and was designed to go from Canada to Mexico. The original plan was to make it a motorized single lane trail the entire way giving access. The political tree huggers had this act changed and part of the trail including the Centenniall Mtn range in IP has been closed. This trail is still open in many areas including the Pipe Stone area in Montana. All we were trying to do was access the open part of this trail.

Now for some questions......who has the right to close a trail that has been open for years to the public and why? Is it some snot nosed kid out of college with a gun and badge that thinks he is ten feet tall? What gives them the right to take away my public lands?

I am in total agreement with you on this. Its stopped being about the land itself, but who has to most powerful lobby and who the politicians want to cater to that particular year.

Now RMK2112 I will admit that "it was a mistake" and "what was I thinking"? But you have no right to judge me and my values. But, I should have explained myself better. You will never meet a bigger advocate for freedom to use our lands than myself.......and for everyone!

I'm glad to see you clarify you position and the value of protecting what lands we have left.

I think the guys responding to my post are frustrated like me. I am damn tired of someone closing my roads and trails, sending wolves after our elk, and telling me when to crap! The frustration is overwhelming. I am sure they are not heading up tomorrow with their quads and dynamite to destroy public lands.

I am just as frustrated as you and everyone else who replied to this post. But most of the comments will do more harm than good to any outside interests reading this post.

I would venture to say that I easily spend as much if not significantly more than most people to protect our sport and our riding areas. So, if all you do is write some dumb azz thing on the snowest forum and do nothing else, who is doing more damage, you or me? So throw stones at me all you want, but get off your butts and do something!

I'm the last person you should think does nothing but "write some dumb azz thing on the snowest forum and do nothing else". I am a active member of SAWS, BRC.....I donate a minimum of $100 a yr to each, I write 25+ letters a year in response to different requests by SAWS and BRC for relevant issues at the time requested, and so on.

I apologize for the lack of tact in my 1st post, but not for my belief that the content and direction of the thread was wrong. It sounds like we both want and believe in the same thing, but this thread was going in the wrong direction, especially in a time when policing ourselves and adhering to the boundaries, whether we like them or not, is crucial.

It's okay....you can call me a hypocrite! I've got broad shoulders....

Reply in bold

:grouphug:

hotshot · Oct 29, 2011

We are on the same page brother!

sdsnocop · Oct 29, 2011

Thanks for clearing up your views. As to who is responsible for closing our areas to ride it is not the gun carrying officers that are responsible it is the desk sitting buraeucrats who know nothing about responsible motorized recreation and are constantly lobbied by the greenies. The law enforcement officers are just saddled with the responsibility of enforcing the closures. Most of the time they would not have input into the decision for closure. I have worked with several FS officers and found some that had little tact and had a chip on their shoulder bid enough to feed godzilla. Others I have worked with were respectful (even to the nonrepectful public), utillized common cents, and had a genuine understanding of the recreating public. The officer that dealt with this situation may or may not have agreed with the closure he was enforcing but it seems he so did respectfully and tactfully. It would be hard for me to enforce restrictions for the use of public lands I do not agree with which is why I work for the State of SD instead of the Forest Service even though I could make twice as much. Keep in mind that the Forest Service is more pro motorized use than most Federal land agencies, especially the National Park Service. We need to keep them as our alli.

snowmobiler · Oct 29, 2011

most caught on to the humor in the first post,hotshot.made me laugh.

kahonies · Oct 29, 2011

Yale Creek Trail closure

Let set the record staight at least on who closed the Yale Creek Jeep trail to four wheeler and Jeeps.
So it started four years ago when rocks and boulders started showing up in the middle of the trail then the next year it was chains and few trees accross the trail then there was one of those brown fiberglass stakes saying closed to summer motorized travel.
Then one day I took a hike up the trail and found that there was over 100 trees accross the trail some dead and some live trees that were cut to block the trail.
The question is who did this and who has the athourity to do this?
So I call the Island Park Ranger station and talked with the Ranger in charge of that area, I asked him who was responsible for closing this trail and cutting down live pine trees to block the trail. His tone immediatly changed and his answer and I quote " It's my forest and I will do what I want".
So the decision was made locally. The conversation with went down hill after that.
So SDSNOCOP the decision isn't alway's made by people behind desks in Whashington.
That's my rant.

sdsnocop · Oct 29, 2011

kahonies said:
Let set the record staight at least on who closed the Yale Creek Jeep trail to four wheeler and Jeeps.
So it started four years ago when rocks and boulders started showing up in the middle of the trail then the next year it was chains and few trees accross the trail then there was one of those brown fiberglass stakes saying closed to summer motorized travel.
Then one day I took a hike up the trail and found that there was over 100 trees accross the trail some dead and some live trees that were cut to block the trail.
The question is who did this and who has the athourity to do this?
So I call the Island Park Ranger station and talked with the Ranger in charge of that area, I asked him who was responsible for closing this trail and cutting down live pine trees to block the trail. His tone immediatly changed and his answer and I quote " It's my forest and I will do what I want".
So the decision was made locally. The conversation with went down hill after that.
So SDSNOCOP the decision isn't alway's made by people behind desks in Whashington.
That's my rant.

I agree you are right the desk sitters in Washington are not always to blame. The desk sitters I was also refering to are somtimes the ones sitting in our local offices. I also agree some are a little possessive of "their forest". That situation need to be run up the hill. It may not make any difference but you will find out if the local manager (or ranger) has support from above for his decisions. Remember in the federal system the position "Ranger" is loosly used for many non-law enforcement positions.

mr.deeds · Oct 29, 2011

These government agencies have more power than they were ever intended to have. I live in a ranch community and we were gathering cows off of the mountain... a FS employee came and tried to tell me i was breaking the law because i wasn't on a trail... (cows don't usually just stay on trails

)

Even worse than that.... One night in our own field we had a machine break down, so we were out there with our lights working on it. Two Fish&game officers drove right through our field because they thought we might be poachers. Then we were told that they could do it... and that they actually had more authority than State Police..... kind of screwed up.

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