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DRIVE CLUTCH BALANCING DIFFERENCES

indydan

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I see lots of talk out there about clutch balancing ( and lots of different prices )

Let me first say this - I don't think there is anything I do that I enjoy less then balancing drive clutches................( why ???? )

I have heard prices for $30 all the way up to what-ever ??????

What-ever --- Being my price .... $125.00 Been told a lot that I am just to high.

lets break down this process a little.................

Ok lets say 6 clutches get sent in for balancing, and lets say I charges $30.00 each. ( and there all 800 Polaris clutches )

#1 - brand new with no weights or spring in it
#2 - brand new with weights and spring in it.
#3 - used 1000 miles and very clean
#4 - used 2000 miles and a little dirty
#5 - used with 5000 miles and very dirty
#6 - used with 7500 miles and Behold dirty & completely worn out

Now if I am going to charge $30.00 each ( right.......... )

Ok clutch #1 - has no weights or spring......... ( ok how can i check the belt shimming if it doesn't have weights in it ) You can't !!!! so weights must be installed - Then after shimming is complete they need to be removed.

Ok clutch #2 - has weights and spring..........( ok in order to balance it they must be removed ) Because chances are they are NOT balanced ( and even if they are the balance is not equal thru out the weights length. )

Ok clutch #3 - almost like #2 but has a little sheave wear in the engagement area.............

Ok clutch #4 - needs to be cleaned and has a little sheave wear in the engagement area.

Ok clutch #5 - Needs to be cleaned and has a lot of sheave wear and both the cover bushing and the movable sheave bushings are worn out.

Ok clutch #6 - all bushings are worn out and all the rollers and worn out and the weights are all worn out.


Now lets just say this.............Ok in my head I say to myself, I only charge $30.00 each so that means with unpackaging and writing it up and actually balancing it and then repacking it and calling for payment then shipping it.............assuming this could ALL be done in 15 minutes each.

thats $120.00 per hour for 4 clutches..........right ????

and the only thing you would have time for in this 15 minutes would be a balance them as they came type balance...........right ???

grab them and throw them on the balancer - drill a few holes and slam them in the box............right ???

Tell me this...............what type of quality balance do you feel these different clutches would receive ???? from clutch #1 to clutch #6 ????

ok, to keep this short I will give you an example of clutch #1 & #6 the two extreme sides of the spectrum..............

clutch #1 - First of all 99.9% of all new Polaris drive clutches come with 1 .020 thousands shim under the spider..............And once you install weights in the clutch and check the belt to sheave clearance you will find .020 to .050 thou clearance..............I like to see zero to .010 thou MAX to a brand new belt..................what does this mean ???? it means you have to machine the spider ???? Because the clutch has to have a shim and they don't make them any thinner then .020 ( average ) your not suppose to run them without a shim. Ok - now that the clutch is completely torn down we balance the back sheave by itself - why..........Because if the customer ever slits the clutch apart and reassembles it, It will be as close to imbalance as it can get without re-balancing it. Then the clutch is assembled, final shimmed to the best belt clearance you can get with the time allotted. Then the weights must be removed ( remember this clutch didn't come with weights ) Now that's its fully assembled it gets balanced again.

Now all that being said............How well do you see 15 minutes fitting into, The clutch arriving and being entered in to the computer then doing the work above, Then reboxing it, & then shipping it..............And this was clutch #1 - Brand new ( Clean clutch )

Now lets move on to clutch #5 - ( #6 is a throw away )

  • Completely disassemble
  • Spray with a degreasing agent ( allow to soak at least 15 minutes )
  • Clutch goes into a $6500.00 jet spray hot tank for 15 minutes.
  • Both the inner & outer sheaves are machined ( because there is a groove worn into the sheaves ) from repeated engagements and belt slippage over the years and miles. The machining the hump out of the stationary...Something we have been doing for years..this also lowers clutch temps and gives overall better performance
  • Then the cover bushing and movable sheave bushings are replaced
  • New weights are installed
  • Belt to sheave clearance is checked
  • Spider is then machined to get proper clearance.
  • Then the stationary sheave is balanced
  • Then clutch is completely assembled
  • Weights removed again, then final balanced
  • Then weights are reinstalled,
  • Then it boxed, customers is called for payment, then shipping info is loaded into computer and then shipped.

Time for clutch number #5.......................average 1 -1/2 hours labor.

I don't see where $30.00 fits into doing the job corectly.............

As a matter of fact clutch #5 is the reason I almost always tell them to buy a new clutch and start fresh. #5 is rarely worth the time spent.

Clutches can't all be treated the same.................And chances are in this world.................You get what you pay for.

If you have had a drive clutch serviced and balance and you couldn't tell the difference.............But you just felt better simply because you had it done.............Then you didn't get much for your money.

I'm not saying it can't be made better for $30.00, But its a slim chance unless it was a new clutch to start with.

after I get done with a $125.00 balance job to a 5000 mile clutch I feel
like I didn't make a bit of profit and the customer got the deal of a life time.

Tip - If your drive clutch is machined and shimmed and balanced properly, all the other little separate weight balancing done is great but to needed.

I have seen 800 motors go 15,000 miles plus with good cases, that had drive clutch weights that were over a full gram out of balance.

balancing a Polaris clutch without machining the spider is almost impossible.
 
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Snowstar

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Aug 22, 2006
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You could have balanced all of them with the time it took you to type that:D I had the $30 balance job. Works great. Watched him do it, took a whole 5 minutes.
 
R

rockin rmk

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Oct 27, 2002
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would you recommend balancing brand new clutches? I bought one for my 99 rmk and had the $35 balance done on it before putting it on the sled. I am thinking of pulling the one off of my dragon and have it done but not sure if it is worth it
 

mountainhorse

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In this world, You get what you pay for most of the time...

RON on the forum here took the time to write up a great mini-article on his process that took him to the balancers shop.

http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87640

His adventure in going thru his complete clutch to get it to the balance shop parallels your process above.

He spent a lot of time on his Brand new ZERO HOUR clutch just to get it ready to balance.
That was on his brand new 2009 800 RMK!!

It's great to see all of this info posted on the forums for all to read.

Thanks to both you and RON (great pix by the way) a lot more people on the forum here know a lot more about the process.

I can see your main point that the clutch must be in great shape before the process can even be started... RONS was NEW and he still needed to spend a lot of time on getting it right.

Rockin RMK.... Have a look at RONS post with his new Dragons clutch... very good presentation that will answer your question.
 
R

Ron

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Sounds more like blueprinting a clutch, that's a lot of work for $125. The 09 Polaris clutch comes with a bushing and a shim so you can remove the bushing and add the desired amount of shims. I couldn't get an exact # on thickness because it has a bevel on one side and a lip on the other but it's about .040 plus the .020 shim.
For a high mile clutch your process is a bargain since you machine the faces along with the balance job.
 

POLZIN

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Dan,
I will be proud to send you my clutch and pay a fair price to Have it done right!I do quality work in my shop and to hell with those who don't want to pay for quality! THIS IS NOT WALMART! IMO 125.00 for 1.5 hrs is too cheap! I have never heard a single bad report about your product! considering the venue we have here that is an accomplishment!
 
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shortstop20

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Nov 26, 2007
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I had Dan do the clutch on my Pro-X 800 when I had him work on the motor and I could not be happier(with the clutch or the motor). Whenever I need work done that I don't have the knowledge or tools to do myself I know where I'm sending it.
 

CO 2.0

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Got the engine back in the edge last night Dan. Started up on the 3rd pull. Sounds way more pissed off than my new dragon :D Thanks for the extra tips on the sheet you provided.
You gonna keep my badass wood ship box and blankets? You prolly already threw them out lol ;) That is a cool way you shipped the engine back to me, nice and compact with perfect fitting foam :beer;

I'm sure you'll get some clutch balancing business of mine in the future...
 
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BIGGDAWG

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Jul 6, 2001
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so just to get this straight, you charge 125 even if it is a brand new clutch that is already shimmed and has weights and springs in it? just curious. and you charge 125 for a worn out pos
 

indydan

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so just to get this straight, you charge 125 even if it is a brand new clutch that is already shimmed and has weights and springs in it? just curious. and you charge 125 for a worn out pos

Good question - If there new its $75.00, The clutch is still toren down and
the stationary shiv is balanced seperately, then weights removed ( Weights are then balanced to each other. ) clutch then assembled and torqued. then final balanced. then weights reinstalled.
 

indydan

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Got the engine back in the edge last night Dan. Started up on the 3rd pull. Sounds way more pissed off than my new dragon :D Thanks for the extra tips on the sheet you provided.
You gonna keep my badass wood ship box and blankets? You prolly already threw them out lol ;) That is a cool way you shipped the engine back to me, nice and compact with perfect fitting foam :beer;

I'm sure you'll get some clutch balancing business of mine in the future...

LOL!!!!!!!!!! :D I have to say, that was one of the nicest crates I have see yet. and the blankets!!!!! That unit was wrapped with love !!!

Sorry to say, And it was tuff to do.........we had a bonfire just last week-end and the mighty crate met its maker!!!:eek:

Glad to hear you got it going, AND glad to hear you got a new Dragon!!!!

I like that Sounds more pissed off Then the Dragon part !!!:D


I have a feeling your old edge is going to give te Dragon a run for its money!!! I wish they had the same track !!! But its still should be a fun comparrison.

When you get a chance, give me a call and I would like to hear what jetting and clutching your going to use.

Thanks, Dan
 
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SNOW JW

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I have SLP do all mine they come back looking like brand new all shiny and cleaned up. they charge me based on what parts are worn out and need fixed so I am not paying for anything but just my stuff and what my clutch needs. But after my 900 came back it was allot smoother and with all new bushings and such I gained a little RPM as well.
 

CO 2.0

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LOL!!!!!!!!!! :D I have to say, that was one of the nicest crates I have see yet. and the blankets!!!!! That unit was wrapped with love !!!

Sorry to say, And it was tuff to do.........we had a bonfire just last week-end and the mighty crate met its maker!!!:eek:

Glad to hear you got it going, AND glad to hear you got a new Dragon!!!!

I like that Sounds more pissed off Then the Dragon part !!!:D


I have a feeling your old edge is going to give te Dragon a run for its money!!! I wish they had the same track !!! But its still should be a fun comparrison.

When you get a chance, give me a call and I would like to hear what jetting and clutching your going to use.

Thanks, Dan

aww, that was the best engine box I ever made.... bet it was a good fire :D
Can't wait to ride it, doesn't even sound like the same machine anymore. Mototassinari said they would warranty my Vforce reed valves. Not gonna use them again though. Gonna run 300 jets to start and see where I'm at (10-11K ft). Clutching is almond round in primary with 10-60 weights. Secondary is black-red with 64/40 helix. Was pulling 7950rpms last year where I ride (but with red-black in secondary instead of black-red). I'm 170lbs and my buddy riding the edge this year is 210lbs. Guess we will see where my rpms are at when we hit the mountain.
 

indydan

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aww, that was the best engine box I ever made.... bet it was a good fire :D
Can't wait to ride it, doesn't even sound like the same machine anymore. Mototassinari said they would warranty my Vforce reed valves. Not gonna use them again though. Gonna run 300 jets to start and see where I'm at (10-11K ft). Clutching is almond round in primary with 10-60 weights. Secondary is black-red with 64/40 helix. Was pulling 7950rpms last year where I ride (but with red-black in secondary instead of black-red). I'm 170lbs and my buddy riding the edge this year is 210lbs. Guess we will see where my rpms are at when we hit the mountain.

Sorry about the box..........:eek: If I had more room I would have put it on the trophy shelf.!!!!:D

Sounds like a pretty good place to start. Might pull 10-62's :D
 
D
Dec 23, 2007
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just for giggles what does it take to get into balancing clutches? the reason I ask is there is noone around here that balances.

next question what would it cost to totaly rebuild( all the part with the exception of the weights) and balance a polaris clutch?
 

winter brew

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Just to add to the clutch balancing confusion...;)....do you balance the belt? Since the belt is rotating on approximatly 1/2 or less of the clutch sheave surface (all on one side of the clutch), how does this effect balancing when in operation? If you could throw a clutch with a belt on the balancer, what would you see??? :D
 
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