2010 D8 163 Clutch Questions

Holding it wide open on the trail or while the sled is in the air will get you full shift out. Or you could slap a turbo on it and run 14+ pounds of boost.lol
If you are seeing most of your belt transfer on right about the middle of the primary and have NO belt heat then try like a 2 degree steeper helix on the finish. Other wise that is about right for a stocker long track in spring like snow.
Can get away with some belt heat but that means you will have to stop climbing and let things cool more often as things will fall off performance wise eventually. There is a fine line in finding max track speed and maintained belt temps. I always error to the conservative side because it really sucks when you are in a tough climb almost to the top and either belt heat rears its ugly head and sucks the power right from under ya(or worse yet), the belt lets go.

if you want more trackspeed go to a 19/46 gearing with a 78 pitch chain. That will help a lot in deep heavy snow.

Evan

Marks left means you have more available. Gear down some and you will get those clutches using more of their range, will pull a little more helix and be easier on belts. I run the Carls helix on 62/42 .40 with 19/42 and it works very well.

Gearing is going to play a huge part on track speed. Most people like to be geared from 2.25-2.50 for mountain riding. It's going to allow your clutches to act more efficiently and responsively. You want to go 60mph not 100mph so that is a good start.
How are your MTX weights set up? These have difficulty shifting out if there isn't some tip weight.
You guys and your drag race setups. :nono::doh: Lol I'm just kidding. That is a proven setup and everyone really seems to like it. Especially if you are a climber. I'm the odd man out around here. :face-icon-small-sho
With that primary spring and weights I think you would prefer the 62/42-.40 helix. They work together well. This will allow your secondary to shift up quicker to load the motor. You will also have less belt slip in the primary.
Always remember, your primary has the least side force (belt squeeze) at engagement and the most at full shift. Your secondary clutch is just the opposite. It has the most at engagement and the least at full shift.
Sorry, I'm rambling now.

Mitch P. said:

The Dragon is running good! Posted earlier about gaining more track speed. I rode Baker yesterday, and sled did awsome all day. Current setup is SLP single, HPS can, SLP Blue/pink primary spring, MTX 68 weights, stock secondary spring and helix along with stock gearing (19/41?). I put a couple of pen marks on the primary Friday night and found out after my ride that the primary is only using a little over have of its travel. Still have about 1.5" of the pen marks untouched. Track speed was running right around 40mph yesterday during climbs. Do the pen marks remaining just mean that there is no belt slippage at the upper end, or is not all my clutch being utilized? If it isn't being used, what changes are needed for full shift out on the primary?

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kind of curious what type of sled you want..a flat speedster or a mountain sled. Do you want a fast blast out of the hole (let off the throttle and back on and it jumps) or do you just want top end speed?

Track speed in MPH is not a real good way to tune. To many variables unless you have a radar gun. MPH does not show where you are in the power band. I ran that blue/pink spring with the same set up you have other than your weights are butt arse heavy for that sled/ It was a non performer at any elevation above 4000ft.

Go up towards bighouse and climb straight up the mountain. Set your RPM history page to show max rpm.,s Clear it before you make the climb. In 1foot or less I would be very surprised if you pulled more than 76-7700 rpm;s depending on rider plus gear weight.

What is your weight plus gear..makes a difference.


Just to let you know..your secondary is the dog on your setup. Your primary weights are too heavy also for Baker...to heavy for GC also.

19/46 gearing is a 2.42 ratio. A 46 is the biggest bottom gear you can fit in there i believe. Top speed according to the polaris shop manual is 72mph with that gearing.

I gained 7 mph track speed on average after gearing it down.
I run 10-66 primary weights, slp blue/pink, and i have a straight 38 helix and stock spring in my secondary. It works great for climbing, which is mostly what i do.
Evan

deepdiver said:

kind of curious what type of sled you want..a flat speedster or a mountain sled. Do you want a fast blast out of the hole (let off the throttle and back on and it jumps) or do you just want top end speed?

Track speed in MPH is not a real good way to tune. To many variables unless you have a radar gun. MPH does not show where you are in the power band. I ran that blue/pink spring with the same set up you have other than your weights are butt arse heavy for that sled/ It was a non performer at any elevation above 4000ft.

Go up towards bighouse and climb straight up the mountain. Set your RPM history page to show max rpm.,s Clear it before you make the climb. In 1foot or less I would be very surprised if you pulled more than 76-7700 rpm;s depending on rider plus gear weight.

What is your weight plus gear..makes a difference.


Just to let you know..your secondary is the dog on your setup. Your primary weights are too heavy also for Baker...to heavy for GC also.

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So...you are saying that on a climb when you're foward speed is less than 20mph (hypothetically) and you're track speed is upwards of 48 mph that this is not a good gauge of how your clutching setup is working:face-icon-small-sho Hmmm...................

Tracks spin...how are you hooking up? all a big question. Look at a yamaha speedo and look at a polaris side by side and they wont be close.

you have a peak powerband on that sled at a specific RPM...the power curve is peaky..go too far over the top in RPMs and it will "sound" responsive but will have a noted drop in HP.

Question..when you are climbing and your track speed is 48MPH hypothetically...how do you know what your forward rate in MPH is? Just a guess? Can you really tell a 5mph increase on a climb?

If you dont want to check your rpms there is really no constant varible to tune with IMHO.

Good Luck.

RileyLHampton said:

So...you are saying that on a climb when you're foward speed is less than 20mph (hypothetically) and you're track speed is upwards of 48 mph that this is not a good gauge of how your clutching setup is working:face-icon-small-sho Hmmm...................

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Hey Riley...No you misunderstood.and no I am not saying anything..not here to create an argument..dont have time for that. Full Monte has it down pretty good for not knowing what elevation he is riding at...pretty close guess on the primary weights!

By knowing what he is pulling in RPM,s on a constant varible I can maybe possibly see what he needs to get to the peak of the powerband.
It has to do with tuning. not about about an argument. There is more than one way to get to the same point.

I ride the exact same area as the gentleman with the question with the same sled..weight is a question. I can compare varibles more realistically for that elevation. I dont worry about MPH on a mountain sled..I only want to know that I am not dropping out of the power band and the rest will all fall into place anyway. A few weeks ago at Baker I saw forward motion of maybe 10mph...yet my speedo said over 50..why would that be (I know the answer) and No I wasnt using the turbo sled that day either.
If I can pin him down to a certain test area or find what type of sled he is trying to have we can get the setup correct. Just saying that without a constant varible there will be too much guess work.
You have to get the drive train correct and then you can tell if you have any other issues. These sleds have fuel issues and none seem to be the same.

If you climb Baker there isnt a tree in sight anywhwere and I mean zero. Depth perception is in the tank and so is the ability to guess your forward motion. Wind is not uncommon in places where thery are no trees either.

Have a great day and see if you can help the guy that had the clutching question.

Ahh the clutching debate.
Clutching is very personal as I think we all understand. Personally, I'm not a drag racer which was why I made that little joke. I'm a mountain rider. More than that I like to play in the trees. I'm no Chris Burandt by any means, but I like the technical stuff.
I think what deepdiver is explaining is that track speed (spin) isn't necessarily a true indicator of what your sled is doing. I know alot of people are always looking for that elusive track speed. It has been engrained into our minds that if we are reading higher track speed we must be going higher up the hill. Not necessarily true. This isn't as important as acheiving full shift out of your clutches and getting the power to the track and keeping it there.
Too steep of a helix may read a good track speed, but what happens when the climb is the toughest. A clutch setup that isn't backshifting properly or getting you in the right gear for the situation can be the difference between stuck in 10 feet or making it over the top in 30.
Clutching needs to start where?
answer: at your primary clutch.
To take full advantage of the gearing available from your clutching you first have to get your primary to transfer as much power as it can to the seconday. To me this means positive low engagement with no belt slip. This is why I'm not a huge fan of the steep initial angle. You are all but throwing your lowest gear in the garbage. Again, this does work to load your motor, but doesn't suit my riding style. Not here to argue either, just explaining the differences.
What is your secondary clutch?
answer: it is a torque converter. This is the more amazing part of the equation. Now that you are transferring the most power from the primary, the torque converter must then send it to the chaincase etc etc...Your secondary has also been referred to as a belt tensioner. Your secondary clutch has to sense when you are under acceleration, when you let off the gas, when you have powder snow, when you are climbing on and on. Not only does it sense what your primary is telling it, but also what the track is telling it.
If you are on that steep climb and running out of juice your secondary needs to say, "hey we should gear down a bit". This is the back shift everyone refers to. Even when track speed is decreasing it is important that your RPM stays very close to peak. This indicates the sled is back shifting properly.
I think we all agree to gear it down. Get the clutching down and the track speed will be there. These sleds love to be around 8250rpm! Sorry, babbling again. :face-icon-small-con

my thoughts exactly..thanks!

that is why i run a straight 38 helix rather than a multi-angle helix. Much better backshifting and it holds rpm's and pulls hard at the top of long climbs when my track speed is all the way down to like 30mph. It doesnt take off really quick but it is very smooth and the powerband is consistent throughout.

Evan

sent you a PM