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I miss my Shockwave adjustable helix,RPMs were always spot on regardless of elevation

Frostbite

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I'm trying to dial in the clutching on my 09 M8. I was pulling the desired 8,200 RPM of the SLP performance edition package at 4,000 feet. Of course, as I accended in elevation I was pulling less RPM. Where we were climbing was 7,000 feet and I was only pulling 7,500-7,600 RPM.

So, I will be removing some weight from my clutch weights so I can reach my target RPM at the elevation we typically climb.

When I do that I will have to be careful not to put a piston through the hood at lower elevation because the sled will rev to 8,600 if I'm not careful.

That's where the shockwave that I miss badly comes in. You have an adjustment ring on your secondary. The adjustment ring raises or lowers your helix angle. So down at lower elevations you dial up a higher helix angle so your motor is loaded via a steep helix angle and as you gain elevation you can turn in the adjustment ring in lowering your helix angle and keeping your engine RPM at your target shift speed. So at 4,000 feet you can turn a 8,200 shift speed and at 10,000 feet you can turn 8,200. I sure miss not having that capability. The lower helix angle not only allows you to pull your target RPM but it also gives you a much better backshift.

Unfortunately it's NOT available for Cats that use the Diamond drive. :(

Is there any type of similar system that DOES work with diamond drives?
 
R

RKT

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Jul 19, 2001
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I'm trying to dial in the clutching on my 09 M8. I was pulling the desired 8,200 RPM of the SLP performance edition package at 4,000 feet. Of course, as I accended in elevation I was pulling less RPM. Where we were climbing was 7,000 feet and I was only pulling 7,500-7,600 RPM.

So, I will be removing some weight from my clutch weights so I can reach my target RPM at the elevation we typically climb.

When I do that I will have to be careful not to put a piston through the hood at lower elevation because the sled will rev to 8,600 if I'm not careful.

That's where the shockwave that I miss badly comes in. You have an adjustment ring on your secondary. The adjustment ring raises or lowers your helix angle. So down at lower elevations you dial up a higher helix angle so your motor is loaded via a steep helix angle and as you gain elevation you can turn in the adjustment ring in lowering your helix angle and keeping your engine RPM at your target shift speed. So at 4,000 feet you can turn a 8,200 shift speed and at 10,000 feet you can turn 8,200. I sure miss not having that capability. The lower helix angle not only allows you to pull your target RPM but it also gives you a much better backshift.

Unfortunately it's NOT available for Cats that use the Diamond drive. :(

Is there any type of similar system that DOES work with diamond drives?

Proper clutching will not allow for this huge rpm swing when changing elevation or adding power.. The clutching where you have a "controlling" clutch (primary or secondary) will cause this sort of issue..
When clutches are in sync and in harmony you will see 0-100rpm MAX change in rpms with a 4000 elevation change..

My house is at 5000ft and I have penty of area to ride near it.. We unload at 6000ft and ride for 5 miles to 8000ft then up to 9000-9500ft.. I can ride at my house and see the same rpms as I do at 9000ft.. In other words, the rpms stays the same regardless of elevation.. Of course the power is much greater at the house (lower elevation) but the clutches sense this and adjust accordingly (shift faster)

Same with my Doo.. NO rpm change from 5000-9000ft.. No clutching adjustment EVER!

It is all in the clutching set-up.
 

Dam Dave

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get one of the many conversion kits that allow you to adjust the sec spring pressure on the hill
 

Frostbite

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Yes, this is the first sled I have ever had that doesn't use a torsional spring type secondary. I loves being able to turn up the spring tension to improve my backshift or as the snow got stickier, to keep my RPMs up.

Heck, with the new electronic reverse and the helixes being different, nobody even makes stiffer secondary springs yet. Yes, this really limits your tuning perimeters.

As a side note and not to take this topic off task but, you can't even adjust primary clutch roller size either as a tuning variable.

Kelsey, I certainly don't mean to put you on the spot but, are you 100% confident that your adjustable secondary works just fine with the 2009-2010 sleds with electronic reverse? Because you guys are right. I'm not too impressed with non adjustable secondary.
 
R

RKT

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Yes, this is the first sled I have ever had that doesn't use a torsional spring type secondary. I loves being able to turn up the spring tension to improve my backshift or as the snow got stickier, to keep my RPMs up.

Heck, with the new electronic reverse and the helixes being different, nobody even makes stiffer secondary springs yet. Yes, this really limits your tuning perimeters.

As a side note and not to take this topic off task but, you can't even adjust primary clutch roller size either as a tuning variable.

Kelsey, I certainly don't mean to put you on the spot but, are you 100% confident that your adjustable secondary works just fine with the 2009-2010 sleds with electronic reverse? Because you guys are right. I'm not too impressed with non adjustable secondary.



You have more problems than your secondary... Yes, ours works fine with reverse.. we put in in 10 times a ride 3 times a week. But I am not trying to sell you anything...
 

Frostbite

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Ok, what other problems than the secondary?

I know the rivets that came in my clutch are too heavy now. I will remove them and put in more suitable weight rivets. No problem.

I tried a heavier 140/340 primary spring to see if I could pull the weights but, nope. I sure did like the engagement speed better though. I'll lighten up the clutch weights and go back to the recommended 160/310.
 
R

RKT

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Ok, what other problems than the secondary?

I know the rivets that came in my clutch are too heavy now. I will remove them and put in more suitable weight rivets. No problem.

I tried a heavier 140/340 primary spring to see if I could pull the weights but, nope. I sure did like the engagement speed better though. I'll lighten up the clutch weights and go back to the recommended 160/310.

re-install stock weights (70 or 72 g light tippers)... That is the key to good clutching with these M sled.. use the 120/340 primary spring light tip STOCK Cat weights and a different secondary set up..
 

Frostbite

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Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my primary is now 'shimmed" for MTX weights. Can I use the Cat weights after this "shimming"?

I do have a set of 73 gram stock Cat weights and a set of Culter adjustables I haven't even tried yet.

Why do you say a 340 finish rate?

I always use a high total force spring too but, others say you rarely ever fully collapse your primary spring if you use such a high total force. I am try to build RPM to keep my sled in its powerband and higher total force springs let me throw more weight at the primary.
 

Frostbite

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I was the only guy in my group that didn't have a turbo. That was because I spent most of my riding time fixing the turbo issues the other guys were having.

Yet, if I clutched my naturally aspirated 1 ton to turn 10,500 at the parking lot it would only turn 9,500 or 9,600 climbing at elevation. It wasn't just me, all of us had that issue. Maybe it was a fourstroke thing?

I must have tried 25 different clutching options to remedy the problem and some were better and some were worse but they all did the same thing. I was losing hp at elevation (just like on my naturally aspirated two stroke). The Shockwave was the only thing that kept me from pulling my hair out. That's why I was sniveling about missing being able to use it to keep my sled dialed regardless of elevation.
 
R

RKT

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Jul 19, 2001
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Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my primary is now 'shimmed" for MTX weights. Can I use the Cat weights after this "shimming"?

I do have a set of 73 gram stock Cat weights and a set of Culter adjustables I haven't even tried yet.

Why do you say a 340 finish rate?

I always use a high total force spring too but, others say you rarely ever fully collapse your primary spring if you use such a high total force. I am try to build RPM to keep my sled in its powerband and higher total force springs let me throw more weight at the primary.

Frostbite...

The KEY to a properly clutched M sled is the fixed secondary AND the STOCK CAT ARMS... I am not sure if your modifed primary will even accept the stock weights now, but I am hoping it can be modified back to original spec..

AGAIN... STOCK style primary weights are what we have found to be very pertinent..
 

Frostbite

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Got it Kelsey, thank you.

When you say a fixed secondary is best. Do you mean a fixed helix angle, like a 36 degree angle? Am I missing something here?
 

Frostbite

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What are the problems in the stock secondary?

Why is it that the primary can actually overdrive the secondary? Can you fix that so one doesn't blow belts routinely.
 
B

boosted1

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Nov 26, 2007
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I have a shockwave on my 09 M8!

I'm trying to dial in the clutching on my 09 M8. I was pulling the desired 8,200 RPM of the SLP performance edition package at 4,000 feet. Of course, as I accended in elevation I was pulling less RPM. Where we were climbing was 7,000 feet and I was only pulling 7,500-7,600 RPM.

So, I will be removing some weight from my clutch weights so I can reach my target RPM at the elevation we typically climb.

When I do that I will have to be careful not to put a piston through the hood at lower elevation because the sled will rev to 8,600 if I'm not careful.

That's where the shockwave that I miss badly comes in. You have an adjustment ring on your secondary. The adjustment ring raises or lowers your helix angle. So down at lower elevations you dial up a higher helix angle so your motor is loaded via a steep helix angle and as you gain elevation you can turn in the adjustment ring in lowering your helix angle and keeping your engine RPM at your target shift speed. So at 4,000 feet you can turn a 8,200 shift speed and at 10,000 feet you can turn 8,200. I sure miss not having that capability. The lower helix angle not only allows you to pull your target RPM but it also gives you a much better backshift.

Unfortunately it's NOT available for Cats that use the Diamond drive. :(

Is there any type of similar system that DOES work with diamond drives?

I have installed the old style cat 11" clutch from STM with the helix style, then bought a conversion shockwave helix kit, it simply works!! costly but works! this is what my local turbo shop is out fitting all the turbo M's with.
adjustability is back
 

Frostbite

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No kidding! Wow!

That's why I post stuff like this. I knew someone had to have a solution.

I guess I knew the Supreme tool secondary used the old style Cat helixes but, the guy that makes the shockwave said he couldn't get it work properly with the diamond drive.

The way I understand it, you guys are using it with the diamond drive via supreme tool's secondary? It works fine, right?

Is this the secondary you are using?

http://supremetoolinc.com/cart/tuner-secondary-p-31.html

http://supremetoolinc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=shopping_cart&number_of_uploads=0

With the shockwave below, right?

http://www.shockwaveperformance.com/

http://www.shockwaveperformance.com/order_page.htm
 
M

mr p-j

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Feb 17, 2008
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No kidding! Wow!

That's why I post stuff like this. I knew someone had to have a solution.

I guess I knew the Supreme tool secondary used the old style Cat helixes but, the guy that makes the shockwave said he couldn't get it work properly with the diamond drive.

The way I understand it, you guys are using it with the diamond drive via supreme tool's secondary? It works fine, right?

Is this the secondary you are using?

http://supremetoolinc.com/cart/tuner-secondary-p-31.html

http://supremetoolinc.com/cart/index.php?main_page=shopping_cart&number_of_uploads=0

With the shockwave below, right?

http://www.shockwaveperformance.com/

http://www.shockwaveperformance.com/order_page.htm

does anyone have a definitive awnser to that question?
have a tuner secondary and is planing to buy that shockwave helix.
shoud work but wanted to hear from someone who have tryed it.
 
M

mynewuseddoo

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May 28, 2009
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By fixed secondary, I mean "fixing" the problems in the stock secondary..

Hey you got a new guy to Cat here from Doo. What problems need "fixing" in the Cat secondary? I mean I had over 1600 KM on my 09 XP and I was still running the same belt from day one. I set up my clutches and droped my gearing down as well. I did notice a drop in RPM through elevation but thats what the clickers are for on the TRA, to compensate for the RPM drop from elevation. I pick up the new M8 on the 19th so any advice for the newby would be appreciated. Are these Cats belt eaters? I see through all of the previous posts in this thread that there is an apparent issue but it is left at that. I'm not a dentist so pulling teeth isn't my game so just give it to me straight, what's going on with the Cat clutches? LOL!!

Thanks
 
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