Hey guys i have a 09 M8 HCR, i am installing a shift assist today and hard rock rollers. Just wondering if i should change my stock spring while i have it apart or not? If so what spring should i use? Thanks:beer;
Installing a shift assist should i change stock spring??
- Thread starter MUZBOMB
- Start date
I'm running one on a 1000 so not apples to apples, but I left the stock spring & it works great, I ended up revving a bit higher than before. I would try the stocker & you'll likely be happy, if you feel you need a different spring later, at least you have a baseline for how the stocker performs with the SA.
A
One thing I noticed on my 07 secondary was three casting marks on the sheave where the old plastic AC washer was under the spring.
I would suggest grinding the casting marks off prior to setting the shift assist bearing. The casting marks will point load the bearing and could cause premature failure.
I didn't take a picture of it but I think you get the idea.
As for the spring, run the stocker first and see what happens.
Thunder
I would suggest grinding the casting marks off prior to setting the shift assist bearing. The casting marks will point load the bearing and could cause premature failure.
I didn't take a picture of it but I think you get the idea.
As for the spring, run the stocker first and see what happens.
Thunder
D
You should RPM lower after adding the shift assist with out any other change. Most all sleds do. You can see how with out it how the shift was hanging up. With the shift assist the secondary will shift up more loading the motor more.
Don.
Don.
That seems to be the consensus, but for some reason with only the shift assist changed out I gained about 100-150 rpm.
N
I just put a Shift assist in my M & installed the gold spring in the primary & orange in the secondary. Engagement is really low RPM's. I like it personally.
A
What is the spring rate of the new primary spring? My guess is the rate is lower on the start. Like from a 135 down to a 120 or something.
Shift assist and secondary will have no affect on engagement.
Thunder
Muzbomb
sent you an answer to your pm. make the compressor i mentioned. its a lot easier to take the clutch apart and re-assemble, easy to make, you will want to watch how the helix is compressing during assembly, you need to turn it as you compress it to rotate over your rollers. rickm
sent you an answer to your pm. make the compressor i mentioned. its a lot easier to take the clutch apart and re-assemble, easy to make, you will want to watch how the helix is compressing during assembly, you need to turn it as you compress it to rotate over your rollers. rickm
J
Cat gold is 75 and polaris gold is 100
D
That seems to be the consensus, but for some reason with only the shift assist changed out I gained about 100-150 rpm.
Make sure your not seeing spring bind in the primary now. This will add allot of heat to the belt and primary very fast. Your primary may have never shifted that far now that the secondary is not hanging the shift.
What I am getting at is that the secondary now will shift up but the primary may be hanging on the spring in the primary. Check for paint taken off the OD of the primary spring.
See Cat dropped the ball on this. Evey engineer knows that when you compress a spring it has to spin or the spring will belly. Put a spring in a vice and see for your self just watch your teeth. We have been opening up the primary spider cup to the edge of the braces and adding two very thin friction shims that act like a shift assist in the primary. IT will raise your engagement some but if you know your springs you will be OK.
Here is some pictures for an auto store shift assist you can get and it is a bit thicker to help with spring rate and you can take all the plastic junk out.
check out this thread.
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145365
Cheers Don.
R
Hey Dono, could you post some pics of the opened up primary?
I'm seeing paint missing on my spring, but there are no machine shops around here who have a clue about doing this.
Could someone do a more crude approach with a die grinder maybe?
Nevermind. Just saw the pics on the link you added. Doesn't look like die-grinder territory to me.
Would there still be a big gain to be had in the primary using just the friction shims and not opening up the spring pocket?
Also would using those to pre-load the primary compensate for the RPM drop the shift assist will create from the secondary?
I'm seeing paint missing on my spring, but there are no machine shops around here who have a clue about doing this.
Could someone do a more crude approach with a die grinder maybe?
Nevermind. Just saw the pics on the link you added. Doesn't look like die-grinder territory to me.
Would there still be a big gain to be had in the primary using just the friction shims and not opening up the spring pocket?
Also would using those to pre-load the primary compensate for the RPM drop the shift assist will create from the secondary?
Last edited:
D
There is allot of guys that have used porting templates and carved it out by hand. I am a bit of a perfectionist so I took it off. You may get away with the friction shims. I would flip the primary spring or paint the end again to see if it is catching still.
What you will see is both clutches will load the motor more with more up shift. This till your primary sheaves touch each other or the roller runs out past the mass center line of the weights....well that is not really true. The weight will shift past the mass center line but that amount is all it will shift out too. This is where adjustable weights are great. You can move this mass center line out on the tip more and get more up shift if you want.
Over drive is OK just make sure it back shifts fast. When you need OD it will be there. Kinda like tack poaching to get speed up but you want to back shift to get the work done.
Cheers Don.
A
Make sure you don't get to many shims. If you do you will run out of spring travel and coil bind the spring before the primary closes up all the way.
Also I have noticed the titanium springs are a lot thicker wire, and appear to be a bit bigger in the OD than a standard steel spring. So they could bind up even more.
Thunder
D
Yep I agree with your post. The Ti spring after the paint is warn off will stick like glue to the aluminum. I have broke a few before I understood what was up.
How to tell if your primary spring is hanging? On a nice flat run open the sled up to the max. Let off the flipper and smash it again and see if you MPH more. IF you do your crushing the spring into the spider cup with out coil bind. I had no idea why my sled did this till I broke a two Ti springs. Then the light bulb went off in my head.
Cheers Don.
EDIT: Polaris springs have a bigger OD as well.
TTT
Just noticed all the missing paint on my primary spring and it feels like its binding. Any new news on opening up the cups? So would a shop with a 4 jaw lathe be able to do it without removing the spider?
Better yet anyone trying just the shims to let the spring rotate have a chance to check and see if that solved the issue? Was thinking of just trying one shim....
Just noticed all the missing paint on my primary spring and it feels like its binding. Any new news on opening up the cups? So would a shop with a 4 jaw lathe be able to do it without removing the spider?
Better yet anyone trying just the shims to let the spring rotate have a chance to check and see if that solved the issue? Was thinking of just trying one shim....
M
Hi Perfomance Engineering has washer for this called glide washer i installed them in mine.
did they make a difference? you put one in or one on each side of the spring?
R
Think you are supposed to put two of them together so they can rotate on top of each other. Kinda like a shift assist.
I'm going to have to do something here. 540 miles and my pri spring is missing a LOT of paint here. Also thinking I may not be hitting peak RPM either.
Anyone know what it should be for an 09 800? Sorry to jack.
I'm going to have to do something here. 540 miles and my pri spring is missing a LOT of paint here. Also thinking I may not be hitting peak RPM either.
Anyone know what it should be for an 09 800? Sorry to jack.
They shift assist works awesome, for the money it cost it is well worth it!!!
M
I put one on top and one on the bottom. Thats what the directions said because both sides bind. For 20 dollars i'll try it.
