question for those who clutched their D-8's

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 27, 2009

Just wondering how your sleds are working now with your changes? anyone find big improvments/get em totally dialed in now?Or still having issues?

On my 08 D-8 163 with slp single, 19/42 gears,VF-3 reeds,slp intake kit and vents, I have tried a few new things(new primary spring and 2 helix shims added for this ride) and as of 1- 80 mile ride this weekend this is what my setup is:...
Carls 62/42/.46 helix
stock secondary spring(black/purple)
3-delrin washers
2-slp .70 thick spring shims(reducing initial angle length from .46 to .36)
slp green/pink spring(160/340)
slp mtx 68 gram weights with 2 grams tip and 1 gram in the belly
sled engages at 4200 rpm max rpm 8400 at 4000 ft elevation(with slp single pipe) So far this is the hardest pulling setup I have found of all the stuff I have tried.best track speed on a good steep climb in powder snow was 51 mph on average it pulls 44- 46 mph..( a few weeks ago in really good champayne powder this setup minus the shims and with slp blue pink primary spring pulled a best track speed of 57 mph at 8450(repeated climbs yeiled same results)..am very happy with this setup.is very responsive and great back shift and almost zero belt heat(although I did pull strings on my belt this weekend but it had over 1100 miles on it so will monitor new belt to insure there is not a problem..

Ron · Jan 28, 2009

Clutching

Good report Mike, it's so much more fun when a sled is "dialed". At altitude I haven't been able to find a setup that lets you run high R's with good clutch performance. Would kill for your HP, ha ha, ours are probably more like your good running 6's.
I finally started fabing weights to change the location of the mass and actually went the other direction....heavier weights, slight drop in R's. But like yours, my sled, is freaking aswome. Testing a stocker and piped sled tomorrow, might be selling these things soon. My engagement is about 4000 and running 8150 at 8000' & 8200 at 5000'. Found that I now have much less change in performance as I change altitude or snow conditions, ice cold clutches. I'm running all stock except for weights and a Carl's helix like yours, no shim washers. These things must have a very broad power band.

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 28, 2009

Ron said:
Good report Mike, it's so much more fun when a sled is "dialed". At altitude I haven't been able to find a setup that lets you run high R's with good clutch performance. Would kill for your HP, ha ha, ours are probably more like your good running 6's.
I finally started fabing weights to change the location of the mass and actually went the other direction....heavier weights, slight drop in R's. But like yours, my sled, is freaking aswome. Testing a stocker and piped sled tomorrow, might be selling these things soon. My engagement is about 4000 and running 8150 at 8000' & 8200 at 5000'. Found that I now have much less change in performance as I change altitude or snow conditions, ice cold clutches. I'm running all stock except for weights and a Carl's helix like yours, no shim washers. These things must have a very broad power band.

If you do market them RON I will take the first set...the only reason for the shims was to shorten the initial(too cheap to go buy another helix with this economy)..but it did answer my question on if the initial was to long...am waiting to hear about RON's Clutch shop...

800xtreme · Jan 28, 2009

Ron/Mike -

Have either of you tried Belly Buster wts? I know Carl's likes them, in fact I would have though Mike would have already had them since he is using their helix and spring set-up. My curiosity lies in what works better....SLP MTX or Belly Buster?

Also, as I am sure you are aware Mike, the shims also increase your initial secondary spring tension 6-10lbs.

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 28, 2009

800xtreme said:
Ron/Mike -

Have either of you tried Belly Buster wts? I know Carl's likes them, in fact I would have though Mike would have already had them since he is using their helix and spring set-up. My curiosity lies in what works better....SLP MTX or Belly Buster?

Also, as I am sure you are aware Mike, the shims also increase your initial secondary spring tension 6-10lbs.

yes , I have belly busters, series 10,series 11 and the mtx's...so far best performance regardless of what else I have changed has been with mtx's...and yes putting the shims in raised sec. spring pressure(as well as cutting the angle down from 62) but wanted to isolate the engagment /mid range/ setup snow feel I have with this helix...I think the ideal helix for these sleds with the slp single is a 60/42/.36 cut and a 62/42/.36 cut(the 62/42/ cut I have dialed for champayne powder but feel there is more there on setup snow)..I can reinstall stock helix with any setup I have tried and after adding weight to get the rpms right be left feeling and seeing (on mph memory)that I loose track speed on that first 50 ft of acceleration(plus it trenches)..overall I am very satisfied with the clutching..but when I know that some is left on the table I have to try and get it

...

800xtreme · Jan 28, 2009

Mike...

Did you re-shim for the MTX's? I have a set that I want to try on my 685. I am currently running 10 series wts now, and from what i have been told, with the MTX's I would need to re-shim. I guess it all depends on what kind of clearance I have right now. ALOT of oem clutches come with too much clearance so the MTX's might be perfect...

Trying to find the best of both worlds can be a challange. Typically for backcountry riding it is better to have more spring pressure and a little less helix. BUT, you will loose some acceleration/upshift. For simply drag racing on hardpacked snow, a softer spring with a STEEP helix is the way to go (ie 74-44-46). Of course your backshift will never be there.

By the way...how is AK these days? I spent 25 years in Healy and Fairbanks. I make it back at least once a year to hunt or fish...there is NO place like AK

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 28, 2009

800xtreme said:
Mike...

Did you re-shim for the MTX's? I have a set that I want to try on my 685. I am currently running 10 series wts now, and from what i have been told, with the MTX's I would need to re-shim. I guess it all depends on what kind of clearance I have right now. ALOT of oem clutches come with too much clearance so the MTX's might be perfect...

Trying to find the best of both worlds can be a challange. Typically for backcountry riding it is better to have more spring pressure and a little less helix. BUT, you will loose some acceleration/upshift. For simply drag racing on hardpacked snow, a softer spring with a STEEP helix is the way to go (ie 74-44-46). Of course your backshift will never be there.

By the way...how is AK these days? I spent 25 years in Healy and Fairbanks. I make it back at least once a year to hunt or fish...there is NO place like AK

with the mtx,s I had to reshim back out to stock setting...(was set up for belly busters) the mtx's are built to take up the average over shimming and get it down close(mine came out at .20 with the same thickness shim stack it had new)..yea I guess I am being picky..cause by all who have ridden it it rips..but I know I am leaving just a tiny bit on the table..and since I enjoy tinkering..well lets just say it is an interesting exersize in paiteince..yea hard to beat AK..I live in anchorage been here since 71....left a few times to help family out a time or two but mostly been here...

800xtreme · Jan 28, 2009

Mike,

What was it about the belly busters that you did not like...or perhaps another way to phrase it...why do you prefer the MTX's over the belly busters?

Better midrange, better hole shot, more consistency, more tunability, etc?

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 28, 2009

800xtreme said:
Mike,

What was it about the belly busters that you did not like...or perhaps another way to phrase it...why do you prefer the MTX's over the belly busters?

Better midrange, better hole shot, more consistency, more tunability, etc?

overall it is everything...the belly busters work good..alot better then stock for sure..but it is so nice to be able to run one set of weights for several big elevation changes..as well as the ability to fine tune on the trail(takes me about 15 minutes to pull the weights and change rivits out in the woods( i bought slp's tool and it works good)), plus if you change weights for a specific setup(such as 1 for sea level and one for 6000-8000 ft you dont have to reshim the primary(or at least I havent, I had to put back in the same amount of shim I removed to run the bellybusters) and I really like how well they work from engagement to full throttle...since I do like to tinker I will keep experimenting to see what works best but so far for me these have worked the best...what led me down this road was last winter while the sled ran good it felt lacking..(running slp single at 8000-8100 rpms)then on here everyone said oh the D-8 is junk..no power and such and that surprised me cause first ride(new stock sled)on mine I rode with 2 new Xps and had no problems going where they did..once I took all my tuning stuff and went and found a big hill and started trying things I found that bringing up the rpms really lit up the sled(ended up running best at 8450)everyone questions why I run such high rpms and now some others have started doing it and finding the same results.. and the difference in the sled is amazing...thats why I check all the clutching threads..just trying to share what has worked for me..and I know what works for me wont work for everyone..but it might just help one guy..mike

800xtreme · Jan 29, 2009

good info Mike and I completely agree with your findings on rpm. Over and over again I have discovered the same thing - a little more rpm makes all the difference in the world. If you have ever had a sled that was a little under in rpm, it has a hard time getting out of its own way.

I am eager to hear how Ron's wts work out for him this weekend. I am going to give the MTX's a shot and see what happens.

-jesse

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 29, 2009

800xtreme said:
good info Mike and I completely agree with your findings on rpm. Over and over again I have discovered the same thing - a little more rpm makes all the difference in the world. If you have ever had a sled that was a little under in rpm, it has a hard time getting out of its own way.

I am eager to hear how Ron's wts work out for him this weekend. I am going to give the MTX's a shot and see what happens.

-jesse

yes, ron said it would be next week till we know..more testing of stuff for me..lol

800poodragon · Jan 29, 2009

Ron said:
Good report Mike, it's so much more fun when a sled is "dialed". At altitude I haven't been able to find a setup that lets you run high R's with good clutch performance. Would kill for your HP, ha ha, ours are probably more like your good running 6's.
I finally started fabing weights to change the location of the mass and actually went the other direction....heavier weights, slight drop in R's. But like yours, my sled, is freaking aswome. Testing a stocker and piped sled tomorrow, might be selling these things soon. My engagement is about 4000 and running 8150 at 8000' & 8200 at 5000'. Found that I now have much less change in performance as I change altitude or snow conditions, ice cold clutches. I'm running all stock except for weights and a Carl's helix like yours, no shim washers. These things must have a very broad power band.

Hope your testing goes well.

:beer;:beer;

Spaarky · Jan 29, 2009

OK.... I have not been around Team secondarys before at all. We have always run Cat Secondarys.

What do the delrin washers do? or the additon of the washers. I havent had the clutch apart yet to look things over, maybe that would answer my question too...

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 29, 2009

Outlaw Addict said:
OK.... I have not been around Team secondarys before at all. We have always run Cat Secondarys.

What do the delrin washers do? or the additon of the washers. I havent had the clutch apart yet to look things over, maybe that would answer my question too...

hey outlaw, the delrins go on each end of the spring and allow the secondary to move without binding..really helps the back shift..the shims go under the snapring and lower the installed height of the rollers thus lowering the length of the initial angle ,as well as lowering the angle and slightly increases the spring preload...the shims I only use as a test for checking how initial length is affecting upshift...now that I have tried them I will remove and either change helix initial length or use a different aproach to adjust around what the results showed...

Spaarky · Jan 30, 2009

I believe you mentioned, that you had 3 in. You have 2 on one side and 1 on the other?

I am a little nervous never having worked with a Team before. I dont like venturing to far out of my comfort zone...

We are putting this sled on the snow this weekend and are going to be testing different set ups like crazy.

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 30, 2009

Outlaw Addict said:
I believe you mentioned, that you had 3 in. You have 2 on one side and 1 on the other?

I am a little nervous never having worked with a Team before. I dont like venturing to far out of my comfort zone... We are putting this sled on the snow this weekend and are going to be testing different set ups like crazy.

I also added a delrin under the spring cup(some do it some dont) have run with 2 or 3 doesnt really matter although 3 does raise the spring press a touch more..dont be nervous..the team is super easy to work with..biggest thing with it is when you pull the roller plate it has a blind spline so be sure and mark the plate and shaft real good so it is easier to put back togeather...

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 31, 2009

Outlaw Addict said:
I believe you mentioned, that you had 3 in. You have 2 on one side and 1 on the other?

I am a little nervous never having worked with a Team before. I dont like venturing to far out of my comfort zone... We are putting this sled on the snow this weekend and are going to be testing different set ups like crazy.

OA, how did it go with your clutching?

wellfed777 · Jan 31, 2009

AK i've been thinking about mtx weights for some time i have a 04 edge 800 ported single with 18/40 gears and 64g / yellow/green front spring in the secondary i have a red/pink spring and i've been playing around with a 58-38.46/58-40.46 and a 64-40.46/64-44.46 but i was thinking that the 62 might be perfect in the deep the 64 is great i can feel it up shifting pulling like crazy but in oregon the heavy snow is more typical and it wont hold Rs with the 64? also i run 8100 rpms but would it be better with more?
got any tips?
thanks wellfed

theultrarider · Jan 31, 2009

Try a black/purple in the secondary instead wellfed. That pink/ red is too much on top. I run an 03 escape used to be a single and now twins. After changing out the sec spring, you will most likely want to drop to 62's..Hard to say. That red/pink holds back your upshift alot, but doesn't backshift much better than the black/purple.

AKSNOWRIDER · Jan 31, 2009

theultrarider said:
Try a black/purple in the secondary instead wellfed. That pink/ red is too much on top. I run an 03 escape used to be a single and now twins. After changing out the sec spring, you will most likely want to drop to 62's..Hard to say. That red/pink holds back your upshift alot, but doesn't backshift much better than the black/purple.

I think what tim(theultrarider) suggest is where I would start..try to adjust with spring pressure rather then weights(I hate pulling weight cause it is easy to get where the weight is too light to get full shift out..small changes in spring rate makes a big diff in performance... as for rpms I always try to run right at the top of what engine/pipe manufacturer reccomends(on mine slp says 8300 but what I found with a lot of onhill testing was it just ran better and better with raising rpms up to 8450) this is totally opposite of what the dyno shops have found but the on hill in deep snow performance says it is better...

question for those who clutched their D-8's

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