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BONDED A-ARMS, REPAIRS AND REPLACEMENTS

mountainhorse

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I've been getting a lot of PM's with questions about the bonded A-arms on the 2013-2014 & 2015 PRO RMK's.

In 2013 Polaris moved to a lighter lower A-arm for the PRO (only) models. The top arm went unchanged from previous years.

This different lower A-Arm, as most know, is steel/aluminum bonded hybrid design. In 2013, there were many that experienced separation of the cast aluminum end piece and the steel tube. Some of these were from accidents or "glancing" side blows to the ski like from a tree/stump or rock...but to be fair, some of the failures were from adhesive failures.

Good news is that for 2014, it seems that Polaris worked on some minor design changes (no holes for water to enter)...adhesive injection hole location, QC and changed production methods seemed to have been adjusted. I noticed, overall, that the 2014's have more adhesive squeeze-out.

For 2014, there were not the same amount of complaints of failures and I'd expect that for the 2015's.

Where a welded A-arm (on 2011/12 or the std RMK models thru 2014 plus the 2015 Std. RMK non-snowcheck models)... would bend or break from a hard hit... the bonded lower A-arms can also bend or break or have the adhesive bond fail and separate.... Again...this separation is much less apparent on the 2014+ models. The most common bond failures are caused by hitting a rock/stump/ice chunk hard on the side of the ski that gives a sharp shock load to the joint.

Although anything IS possible... I do not recommend that the consumer try to repair a bonded A-arm. Rivets or bolts simply are not up to the task and may fail catastrophically on you in the field by placing undue "hot spot" loading on the casting or tube... and similarly, I dont recommend that you attempt to repair them with adhesive as they have to have all of the original adhesive removed, prepped/cleaned properly, fixtured and the adhesive injected in the right amount at the right temp.

That being said, if you have a 2013 Bonded A-arm... I DO recommend that you block off any welding gaps or holes from manufacturing with a good RTV sealant AFTER you ensure that all water is dried from the inside of the tubes.

Now we get on to replacing your A-Arms.

Some have asked, "Can I just use a welded A-Arm from a 2011/2012?..
The answer there is NO. That A-Arm requires you to use a shock that is almost one inch longer than the that on the bonded A-arms.

The factory Replacement bonded A-arms are currently at around $340 each MSRP with a "street price" of around $280 each. This comes complete with new ball joint ($46 msrp), 4 bushings ($1.20ea, msrp), and 2 andodized pivot shafts with nuts ($20ea msrp).

Aftermarket options for replacing ONLY the lower A-arms, and retaining your stock length 2013/14/15 shocks... are Timbersled SRA (stock replacement arms) and Alternative impact lower arms... $175 and $223, respectively.
Both brands require you to re-use or replace the stock bushings and pivots and the Timbersled requires you to use re-use or replace the ball joint from your stock units.

Complete A-arms kits (a 4 arms.. 2 upper/2 lower) that use the stock length 2013/14/15 16-5/8" shocks are available from Z-Broz, K-Mod, Timbersled and Alternative Impact.
These would be "bolt on" replacements... though the Z-Broz would be best run with the shock-eyelet lengthening kit to have the shock length correct.






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Excalibur

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Good info! I have two 13 sleds with the bonded A Arms. No troubles yet. I think I will give them a good inspection and seal them up.:face-icon-small-coo
 
D

Danbot

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I was a little disappointed that my 15 Std snowcheck comes with the bonded arms... The one Pro weakness that I couldn't eliminate with my purchase of a Std snowcheck.
If/when I bend an arm on this sled, I will surely replace both lowers with the SR Units... The price of the bonded arms is ridiculous. I had one bonding failure on my 13 pro, rear tube slid out of the aluminum. There was evidence of water/rust damage to the glue so mountainhorse your advice to seal the area off is bang on! I believe that had my arms been sealed this wouldn't have happened.
 
U
Nov 26, 2007
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can you expand on this statement a bit?

Mountainhorse:
as they have to have all of the original adhesive removed, prepped/cleaned properly, fixtured and the adhesive injected in the right amount at the right temp.


This to me does not seem like that difficult of job.
 
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mountainhorse

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Ok...I'll put it back to you.

And I'm not trying to be "cocky" here.

Explain to us how you would go about it... what materials and methods, in a step-by-step manner, from disassembly through prep to actual bonding... you would use to re bond the aluminum to the steel and have it aligned when you do it?



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U
Nov 26, 2007
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alrighty. I'll take a stab at it. I have never done it but may try soon as I have one that is in need.

- before removal match mark the parts so that alignment can be done on bench

-take apart

-clean both pieces. get rid of old glue. i'd probably use a dremel and/or bench grinder with a mild abrasive of some sort to get it down to bare metal. couldn't say exactly what yet as I would determine this as I see how the old glue comes off

-clean bare metal with alcohol to before applying glue

-apply glue per the instructions (glue ordered from lords link in sticky in this section)

- when glueing make sure it is aligned per match marks made during disassembly

-re-insall


simplistic list of course as I currently do not have this apart and would have to work out some detail during the process.

of all the things that folks on this site do to modify sleds glueing an a-arm does not seem like it should be that complex. compared to turbo's, watercraft triples in pro chassis, custom ECU tuning, new tunnels, etc etc this to me seems that it should be about on par with changing a belt.

i'm not saying you are wrong I am just not seeing it?????
 

boondocker97

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-apply glue per the instructions (glue ordered from lords link in sticky in this section)

-re-insall

These two steps are the problem. The glue has to completely fill the space between the two parts or you have problems. You can't put the glue on the parts and then slide them together. Has to be injected after the parts are assembled somehow. Think about sliding a handlebar grip onto a bar with glue. How much of that glue is wiped off in the process? How much is left between the bar and grip, and is it uniform?
 

mountainhorse

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Nice presentation.

My concerns:

BD97 is correct in that the adhesive has to be injected through the injection holes... not sure that a hand tool has sufficient pressure to inject it. This is actually a pretty important aspect... you have to have enough pressure to inject the fast curing adhesive in time (less than 5 minutes at room temp). You must fill the full circumference of the junction between the aluminum and the steel with proper amounts of squeeze-out.

As far as alignment marks.... I don't think that would work as there is the possibility for it to move and maybe be a half a degree or so off...which could put a lot of stress on the parts, in rotational shear, when you assemble them to the sled.
You would need to install it onto the sled before injecting the adhesive.
Shear on the parts is what you want to minimize if you want the part to be as strong as possible... if it is just a half a degree "off".. and you bolt it into place... you may be stressing the joint a lot.

Also...When injecting, you would have to somehow fixture the aluminum end so it does not pop off from hydraulic pressure of the adhesive injection nor shift on you.

Mechanical cleaning of the parts would be pretty difficult with the acrylic... it is hard and bonded very well. Using abrasive or a super stiff wire brush to clean it would, most likely increase the I.D. of the bore and this would change the physical strength of the joint. You don't want to heat the end to soften the glue as this may change the physical strength of the aluminum. You would need to heat the part for quite a while to get the piece to de-bond the adhesive. As I see it, chemical process would probably be the best method... Maybe a "carb dip" tank or some super strong Methylene-Chloride stripper (Immersion for 6 or so hours) would do it??

Is it possible... certainly... as you've said, people have built complex projects and they look great! But, this "repair" has to be done in a very controlled way to be successful which, again, is possible.

Failure to do a really good job in this could have your arm break and fail and cause a very dangerous situation.... so consequences for failure are high.

My 2 cents.



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U
Nov 26, 2007
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I had actually thought about injecting while on the sled. Seemed like a logical way to keep it in the proper position.

So I do not disagree with anything you've said. I still seems to me that this should be doable.

Having never seen it in person what comes with the Lords kit? Is there an applicator of some kind?

Has anyone one here successfully done this?
 

JMCX

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A factory replacement arm I got was difficult to install because one of the tubes was glued in slightly twisted.
 

mtnclimber19

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A factory replacement arm I got was difficult to install because one of the tubes was glued in slightly twisted.

I was wondering when MH was talking about being half a degree off if Polaris really has that strict of tolerances and quality control. Also as far as it being risky if it doesn't work properly? Don't we take that risk every time we ride a sled from the factory since they are coming apart anyhow? I think it's worth a shot, keep us posted on how it works out!
 

mountainhorse

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I've personally seen the jigs at the factory... and they are set up for that kind of precision.

JMCX... If you had to force a replacement bonded A-Arm from your dealer (for a 2013/14/15) into place on your sled...I would have returned it... That is not the norm and will place constant torsional stress on the arm bond/joint.

Hey... you guys are free to do whatever you want... sometimes the challenge is the fun part, I get that.

I think of it this way... would you repair an arm and let your kids/spouse/parent ride it? Some will say yes. Most would say no, IMO. I'm in the "no" category obviously; and I have all the resources to attempt the repair.

If you do choose to take the risk... be careful and methodical... and good luck (sincerely)

IMO, junk the broken arm and buy a replacement Cromoly arm, same weight, that will bolt in place for half of the cost of a replacement factory arm and be done with it.






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U
Nov 26, 2007
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So has anyone one here done this successfully?

Is the injector that is sold with the lords kit bookmarked in the sticky on this page adequate to inject into?

Figures I don't have this fixed yet and we got 40++ inches of snow in the last couple days. Might have to squirt some gorilla glue on it so I can go for a rip.

Still considering the timber sled replacements also. Eliminate the point of failure all together.
 

mountainhorse

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I just ordered some T-sled lowers for repairs on a friends sled... they are getting low on stock....(This time of year... all of the companies are)

If you order the adhesive... make sure you don't wait till last minute... you will have lead time and the slight possibility of backorder time.

The only way to tell if the hand pump injector is up to the job is to try it...The factory uses a high pressure pump.







.
 
I've been getting a lot of PM's with questions about the bonded A-arms on the 2013-2014 & 2015 PRO RMK's.

In 2013 Polaris moved to a lighter lower A-arm for the PRO (only) models. The top arm went unchanged from previous years.

This different lower A-Arm, as most know, is steel/aluminum bonded hybrid design. In 2013, there were many that experienced separation of the cast aluminum end piece and the steel tube. Some of these were from accidents or "glancing" side blows to the ski like from a tree/stump or rock...but to be fair, some of the failures were from adhesive failures.

Good news is that for 2014, it seems that Polaris worked on some minor design changes (no holes for water to enter)...adhesive injection hole location, QC and changed production methods seemed to have been adjusted. I noticed, overall, that the 2014's have more adhesive squeeze-out.

For 2014, there were not the same amount of complaints of failures and I'd expect that for the 2015's.

Where a welded A-arm (on 2011/12 or the std RMK models thru 2014 plus the 2015 Std. RMK non-snowcheck models)... would bend or break from a hard hit... the bonded lower A-arms can also bend or break or have the adhesive bond fail and separate.... Again...this separation is much less apparent on the 2014+ models. The most common bond failures are caused by hitting a rock/stump/ice chunk hard on the side of the ski that gives a sharp shock load to the joint.

Although anything IS possible... I do not recommend that the consumer try to repair a bonded A-arm. Rivets or bolts simply are not up to the task and may fail catastrophically on you in the field by placing undue "hot spot" loading on the casting or tube... and similarly, I dont recommend that you attempt to repair them with adhesive as they have to have all of the original adhesive removed, prepped/cleaned properly, fixtured and the adhesive injected in the right amount at the right temp.

That being said, if you have a 2013 Bonded A-arm... I DO recommend that you block off any welding gaps or holes from manufacturing with a good RTV sealant AFTER you ensure that all water is dried from the inside of the tubes.

Now we get on to replacing your A-Arms.

Some have asked, "Can I just use a welded A-Arm from a 2011/2012?..
The answer there is NO. That A-Arm requires you to use a shock that is almost one inch longer than the that on the bonded A-arms.

The factory Replacement bonded A-arms are currently at around $340 each MSRP with a "street price" of around $280 each. This comes complete with new ball joint ($46 msrp), 4 bushings ($1.20ea, msrp), and 2 andodized pivot shafts with nuts ($20ea msrp).

Aftermarket options for replacing ONLY the lower A-arms, and retaining your stock length 2013/14/15 shocks... are Timbersled SRA (stock replacement arms) and Alternative impact lower arms... $175 and $223, respectively.
Both brands require you to re-use or replace the stock bushings and pivots and the Timbersled requires you to use re-use or replace the ball joint from your stock units.

Complete A-arms kits (a 4 arms.. 2 upper/2 lower) that use the stock length 2013/14/15 16-5/8" shocks are available from Z-Broz, K-Mod, Timbersled and Alternative Impact.
These would be "bolt on" replacements... though the Z-Broz would be best run with the shock-eyelet lengthening kit to have the shock length correct.






.









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Hello, It's been a long absence for me and I see that this thread is is very old. So we will see if anybody sees it and replies. I just purchased a 2013 Polaris pro and was told I should rivet the a-arm to help enforce the strength of the bonded A-arms. Thank you in advance for you reply
 
V

volcano buster

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I would. I picked up a '13 600 and had one outer break loose. I was able to reassemble and then rivet, plus rivet the other side for good measure. While you are looking it over, check the drive shaft bearing behind the secondary clutch. I had to replace the driveshaft due to a seized bearing somewhere along the line.
 
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