Bye-bye WI, Polaris to be hecho en México...

Big Gun · May 20, 2010

Bye-bye WI, Polaris to be hecho en México...

Local news story- http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/94520899.html

Official statement from Polaris- http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Polaris+Statement.PDF

Osceola manufactures engines and components which supply our Roseau and Spirit Lake facilities. Osceola also houses Victory Motorcycle development. The Osceola facility was established in 1991. At that time, the facility was a metal stamping operation with 121 employees working out of one building. Today, the facility employs over 800 people who work in the areas of Manufacturing Production, Manufacturing Engineering, and Victory Motorcycle Design and Development Engineering.
The Osceola manufacturing operations have grown to include three facilities totaling over 340,000 square feet. The manufacturing team is responsible for supplying component assemblies to the vehicle assembly plants in Roseau and Spirit Lake. The plant’s four business units consist of Fabrication, Seats, Drive Train, and Exhaust.
The Victory Engineering Department provides development, design, testing and manufacturing engineering support for the Polaris motorcycle product group.

I'm guessing the only thing moving to Roseau or Spirit Lake will be the Victory stuff... :mad2:

christopher · May 20, 2010

Ouch.

XXL · May 21, 2010

If you can't bring Jose' to the mountain, bring the mountain to Jose'.

snowmobiler · May 21, 2010

thanks for more unemployed,losers.i wouldnt pay 3 cents for there garbage now.

thefullmonte · May 21, 2010

This is very unfortunate, but not surprising in the least. Not to myself anyway. A fellow employee text me this morning already telling me his brother and his wife will be loosing their jobs at that facility. He is from the Roseau area originally with his parents still working for Polaris. It is sad for sure. I hate to see American jobs leaving the US, but we are our own worst enemy at times.
You can look at this from the Board of Directors point of view. Which I don't agree with. By, "long term stability" they likely mean they are going to cut labor costs in half. You know those directors and the President and CEO of Polaris need to make more than just a measly couple of million a year. :mad2:

On the other side of the coin we can take a look in the mirror. And this is the really the sad part. Our own society is largely at fault. We feel we deserve everything and shouldn't have to work for it. And don't even try to argue with me on this. I have toured the Roseau facility. I see it every day with our own employees. I see it in the construction worker standing around on the work site. It is a far to common and unfortunate sight to see in today's society.
The majority of Americans are not worth what they are getting paid now. When you hear the term, "It's hard to find good help". It's not a lie. Try to find someone who is really truly a dedicated hard working employee these days.
Not only is American labor expensive, but it is also often times sub par. Many of Polaris warranty issues of recent years can be traced right to the assembly line. Poor quality control from the people in charge and an "it's good enough", attitude from the assembly line. Honestly, when was the last time you saw "Made in USA" and considered that to be good quality? Most would buy it out of Patriotism, but not for quality.
At what point are Americans going to start giving 100% effort and making the best product with real pride? All this with lower pay just so companies can afford to keep you. When are we going to work hard just to keep our job rather than think we deserve a job (paycheck)?
A) when pigs fly
B) when hell freezes over
C) never
All of the above, it isn't possible. Not in today's society and not with how we have become acccustomed to living. Society dictates that although most people could cut back on things most couldn't take much of a pay hit. The daily costs of living in America have dictated this to us. Everything from our housing to our gas and food and debt. Then the government wants to take more than their share not only from the employee's paycheck, but also from the company itself. So there is the other burden. The US government punishes companies for keeping American labor???????????
My point is that I would assume that the pidley tarrifs that Polaris will be charged to bring units in from Mexico will never come close to the money they will be saving by not building the stuff here. Sad but true.
Last fall Polaris purchased an engine building company in Switzerland. It finally dawned on them that they couldn't do that here either so they are expanding their interests around the globe.

thefullmonte · May 21, 2010

snowmobiler said:
thanks for more unemployed,losers.i wouldnt pay 3 cents for there garbage now.

We must work harder. Millions on welfare depend on us. :pound:

Delo · May 21, 2010

I am sure we will hear now how Polaris sucks. But this is still American (not sure for how long though) and if businesses want to move they can. Obviously there is an economic reason for the move. I feel VERY bad for the people losing there jobs because of this. This announcement after the President of Mexico was up here blasting Arizona and their new law (good for Arizona). He is one big hypocrite. We will always be able to buy Polaris 4 wheeler & sleds. I just hope the people that are loosing their jobs because of this whole thing will find something very quickly, too me they are the ones being affected the most by this.

Delo · May 21, 2010

We must work harder. Millions on welfare depend on us. Very true thefullmonte. We must work harder and make more not for ourselves but so the government can give it to people who do not deserve it.

snowmobiler · May 21, 2010

thefullmonte said:
I see it in the construction worker.

i see it too.construction companys only wanting to pay 8 bucks an hour nowadays for experianced workers.no reason to pay 15 or 20 so a family can afford healthcare,go to the dentist or even eat healthy when they can pay 8 to a house full of southern workers and then say its because they work harder.

go high fast · May 21, 2010

Real sad stuff. Move to mexico means:
1.) reduced direct labor cost
2.) reduced employee benefit cost
3.) less environment regulation
4.) less labor regulation
5.) fewer union issues
6.) never studied the issues but I bet more favorable tax/fee structure availiable in Mexico

Polaris would be stupid not to move all manufacturing. Who knows, maybe they are sharing manufacturing facilities with the automakers.

The sad but true fact is that the US is not now and will never be again competitive for manufacturing and or assembly and with ahole in Washinton dismantling our medical, insurance and financial services industry with the high tech defense industry to follow the future is going to be challenging.

While I'm at it, anther sore spot with me is that Ahole is also redefining the mission of our combat forces into social service workers specializing in disaster relief.....not good.

Back to the Polaris issue.......our economy is shifting to low pay, low education, low tech service based stuff where body piercing, tattoos, obesity and the inability to use a word with more than one sylable is perfectly fine. Asking someone to put those words together in a sentence (in english) is crazy and boarderline politically incorrect.

The sad thing here is that these foks impacted in this story represent the best of what remains of US manufacturing. I hope a competitor picks up these displaced workers with a Buy American campaign.

These jobs are NEVER coming back to the U.S.

B C · May 21, 2010

thefullmonte said:
This is very unfortunate, but not surprising in the least. Not to myself anyway. A fellow employee text me this morning already telling me his brother and his wife will be loosing their jobs at that facility. He is from the Roseau area originally with his parents still working for Polaris. It is sad for sure. I hate to see American jobs leaving the US, but we are our own worst enemy at times.
You can look at this from the Board of Directors point of view. Which I don't agree with. By, "long term stability" they likely mean they are going to cut labor costs in half. You know those directors and the President and CEO of Polaris need to make more than just a measly couple of million a year.
On the other side of the coin we can take a look in the mirror. And this is the really the sad part. Our own society is largely at fault. We feel we deserve everything and shouldn't have to work for it. And don't even try to argue with me on this. I have toured the Roseau facility. I see it every day with our own employees. I see it in the construction worker standing around on the work site. It is a far to common and unfortunate sight to see in today's society.
The majority of Americans are not worth what they are getting paid now. When you hear the term, "It's hard to find good help". It's not a lie. Try to find someone who is really truly a dedicated hard working employee these days.
Not only is American labor expensive, but it is also often times sub par. Many of Polaris warranty issues of recent years can be traced right to the assembly line. Poor quality control from the people in charge and an "it's good enough", attitude from the assembly line. Honestly, when was the last time you saw "Made in USA" and considered that to be good quality? Most would buy it out of Patriotism, but not for quality.
At what point are Americans going to start giving 100% effort and making the best product with real pride? All this with lower pay just so companies can afford to keep you. When are we going to work hard just to keep our job rather than think we deserve a job (paycheck)?
A) when pigs fly
B) when hell freezes over
C) never
All of the above, it isn't possible. Not in today's society and not with how we have become acccustomed to living. Society dictates that although most people could cut back on things most couldn't take much of a pay hit. The daily costs of living in America have dictated this to us. Everything from our housing to our gas and food and debt. Then the government wants to take more than their share not only from the employee's paycheck, but also from the company itself. So there is the other burden. The US government punishes companies for keeping American labor???????????
My point is that I would assume that the pidley tarrifs that Polaris will be charged to bring units in from Mexico will never come close to the money they will be saving by not building the stuff here. Sad but true.
Last fall Polaris purchased an engine building company in Switzerland. It finally dawned on them that they couldn't do that here either so they are expanding their interests around the globe.

Very well put Monte, and very true. As an employer of 15 people, I know good help is hard to find. I have 3 out of 15 people that I consider loyal employees. If downsizing was in the future, these three would be the only ones still employed. Unfortunately, the rest would be replaced if the currently unemployed were a better option. But they aren't, so we have to make due w/ what we have. Sad, but true.

snowmobiler · May 21, 2010

2012 RMK.... rocky mexican king?

mountainhorse · May 21, 2010

Sad to see it, but our country is, and has been for many years, going Back to the Pre-WWII equilibrium of "Owners and Renters/workers" and not much middle class.

In the SEC regulations, that large Corps and lobbyist helped to draft, Publicly traded corporations are REQUIRED to maximize profits for the shareholders...There is no element in these regulations for long term stability or Nationalistic loyalty. If companies are not looking to drop costs and increase profits for shareholders... they are in breach of their fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders and can be held accountable ...

Sad IMO as these regulations do not require any responsibility on the part of the corporations/shareholders for the long term stability for the people/communities/nation in which they extract their profits from or where they are granted the Privilege of operating and living in.

This is one of the core faults in our corporate/govt tie that takes us farther away from a decent standard of living for our citizens that are hardworking.

And the machine keeps turning...

Here is a post I made a while back that seems relevant to this discussion

Then again, my bikes aren't made in America by Americans who take no pride in their work yet require large American wages.

Click to expand...

There are plenty of Americans that take pride in their work. And some that don't as well.

It takes a "large American wage" to live in the USA...even more so now with the price of EVERYTHING going up.

I'm not sure if it is a lack of pride on the part of the factory worker or the fact that corporate orders mandate that the assembly line be run in such a fashion that the worker has no time to setup this stuff correctly at the factory.

This is coupled with the pressures for wage cuts in the face of global outsourcing that eliminates many jobs in our country every year. The consumer votes with their dollars on what they TRULY prefer... or want to believe. Many may not like that the majority of our consumer products in the USA are made in foreign lands, but they will still buy their stuff at Wallmart every week.

Many members on this forum are very frustrated by the cost of the aftermarket parts for our sleds... I'd bet more than 95% of them are made in the USA and that is why the cost is so high... I dont see the owners of Edgeworks or Fire N Ice driving around in New Escalades and putting a new 10,000 sq ft addition on their homes....It's the cost of making things in the USA...

We all want it "CHEAPER and BETTER".... or we want to belive that the quality can be maintained or improved for less cost.... It's just human nature!

I grew up in the Detroit area... lots of auto workers in my neighborhood... some of them were lazy SOB's that would not put a bolt in a fender correctly... but others who took great pride in their work but were not allowed by time constraints dictated by the management do the good work they wanted to do. It is super frustrating for a line worker when the time allotted for performing their task is not made by someone who actually knows how to do the task... and I'm talking about quality minded, apple pie eatin survivors of the depresion that know what pride in their work and our country is all about.

All of these decisions are made in an environment, our laws, that require public owned companies (like Polaris, Exxon, Blue-Cross, etc...) to maximize profits for their share holders. It's a pretty complicated "tangled web" in our society. A multi-variable equation if you will that is upset greatly when you change the different factors that affect the system.

These are the same profit-margin pressures that prevent the factory from making a recall or free service on obvious flaws in a design.

Profit maximization should be REQIRED by the S.E.C. to include a component of sustainability (for our country's economy and security) as well as maintaining the quality of a product. If a company is expected to increase profits when the costs are skyrocketing [check the cost of copper, plastic, steel and fuel lately] and still turn out a quality product and increase their shareholders earnings... that is a recipe for disaster...not just for Polaris, Cat and Ski-Doo... but for our USA as a society.

ruffryder · May 21, 2010

MH, agreed completely!!

mountainhorse · May 21, 2010

As an additional part of this discussion.. We, as consumers, are not going to pay more for our snowmobiles, even if they are made entirely in this country.

How many people on the forums here will drive 500 miles to save money on a new sled?

We vote with our pocket books here.

If, at the same time a company wants to sell a "widget" and the price of that widget, set by the populations willingness to buy is "X" then the management must find a way for the widget to be made, maximize profits for the shareholder AND still offer this commodity at the price ("X") the consumer is willing to pay.

If the cost of producing parts is fixed in one location, and the consumer is only willing to pay a certain amount... Then... If the cost to produce it in another location, be it Mississippi, Mexico or Malaysia is overall more effective.... then this is a decision that they feel must be made... and BY LAW one that the mfg (if publicly traded) is required to make.

I wish that at least SOME of our own, USA, companies would have the balls to work with the shareholders to keep profit maximization in mind and let that be governed by long term sustainability of the society in which they extract their profits from.

This is true for any industry or corporate entity... be it Snowmobiles, Cars, Trucks, Banks, Computers or other products.

As a nation, the USA, in most fields of manufacturing, is no longer viable as a cost-effective producer of consumer goods. At least not until the middle class shrinks, and people are more willing to work for a globally competitive wage. Which is what we are seeing today... SAD SAD SAD.

mountainhorse · May 21, 2010

I'm also curious as to what the Domestic (US) content is in the other 3 brands (AC, Yam, DOO)... And of that non-domestic content... what is made in 3rd/2nd world countries?

TIM · May 21, 2010

the american citizen wants high paying jobs.
the american consumer wants there goods priced as low as possible.

do you see that these two do not work well together.

05900 · May 22, 2010

VIVA la SLEDMEX !!!!! :boom:

TRACKS USA · May 23, 2010

Productivity is the key word. The unions have become so powerful in this nation that the worker does not have to be productive anymore. On top of this they have negotiated retirement benefits that no employer can afford.
The word mentioned above was a "loyal" worker. I could care less exactly how "loyal" an employee is as long as he would be productive. Cost per unit of production is what counts as well as quality of workmanship.

In 1970 I worked for Mercury Marine in a production plant where employees were paid piecework. I watched them get time rated and cheat the company with the unions blessing so they could get paid for a days work and only need to work about 4-5 hours out of the day. No different today--you need to drive a stake to see if most government employees even move.
In the 1990's some of my best customers were employees of the Northwest Airlines shops in Minneapolis. Every week several would drive out in their new fancy 4 x 4 trucks and buy mountain tracks for their custom sleds. Guess what--they are gone today. Northwest could not afford their union anymore. These mechanics were making about twice what their friends the car mechanics a mile down the road were making. No smarter--no more education--just a stronger union. The union priced them out of a job.
This is why employers like our hispanic bretheren--THEY ARE PRODUCTIVE! American industry could afford the liveable wages that we are used to if the employee was productive. The unions and current American mindset will not let this happen.
The unions were necessary 75-100 years ago but have become entirely too powerful. They will be responsible for the downfall of America.

hypnotoad · May 23, 2010

TRACKS USA said:
Productivity is the key word. The unions have become so powerful in this nation that the worker does not have to be productive anymore. On top of this they have negotiated retirement benefits that no employer can afford.
The word mentioned above was a "loyal" worker. I could care less exactly how "loyal" an employee is as long as he would be productive. Cost per unit of production is what counts as well as quality of workmanship.

In 1970 I worked for Mercury Marine in a production plant where employees were paid piecework. I watched them get time rated and cheat the company with the unions blessing so they could get paid for a days work and only need to work about 4-5 hours out of the day. No different today--you need to drive a stake to see if most government employees even move.
In the 1990's some of my best customers were employees of the Northwest Airlines shops in Minneapolis. Every week several would drive out in their new fancy 4 x 4 trucks and buy mountain tracks for their custom sleds. Guess what--they are gone today. Northwest could not afford their union anymore. These mechanics were making about twice what their friends the car mechanics a mile down the road were making. No smarter--no more education--just a stronger union. The union priced them out of a job.
This is why employers like our hispanic bretheren--THEY ARE PRODUCTIVE! American industry could afford the liveable wages that we are used to if the employee was productive. The unions and current American mindset will not let this happen.
The unions were necessary 75-100 years ago but have become entirely too powerful. They will be responsible for the downfall of America.

exactly right, unions had their place and still do. but they need to be reigned back quite a bit, but i can't ever see this happening

Bye-bye WI, Polaris to be hecho en México...

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Embrace the BRAAAAAAP!

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